+1 Theory

[Sideburnz]

So of course we all know that it is impossible to create an Itemtype for viewing +1's on the ground because +1 is server side.

Now I have been watching my counter carefully, and the number of +1's I have been getting, and heres the theory:

1> +1 Items cannot be seen on the ground, even if you were to hack into the system.
2> +1 Items are not randomly dropped in the way Refs, Uniques, Elites, & Supers are.
3> A person picks up an item that has +1. Go back in time, and get someone else to pick up the item, it will not be +1.
4> +1 Items are obtained per 1000 kills on average, give or take. (I am not sure if this has to do with monsters killed, or items picked up)

Yes so basically, picking up +1's depends on either
1> how many enemies you have killed, or
2> by how many fresh items you have picked up.
My guess is how many fresh Items, and not how many monsters.

So in theory, lets say a monster drops one weapon. There are 2 characters present, both who have yet to pick up a +1 item on the day: an archer with 1500 kills on the day and a trojan with 50 kills on the day

Scenario 1: The archer picks up the weapon, fresh from the kill, and it becomes +1
Scenario 2: The trojan picks up the weapon, fresh from the kill, and it is not +1

Therefore ->The more kills, the better the chances on picking up a +1 are, even if it is the same item
>>>The client will essentially generate the +1, and not the server.<<<

Heres my evidence:
I have spent the last few weeks concentrating on making money. My method: 10x elfape spawn in new canyon. I have been watching my kill counter closely, as well as the number of +1's I have been getting. On average, I have been picking up a +1 per 1000 elfape kills - picking up every item with the exception of pots, coats, and dresses.
Today I went and got 2000 kills, and no +1, then I saw a pair of elite boots, from a monster someone killed, and when I grabbed them, they just so happened to be +1. Right after I came back for more killing, my second Item turned out to be +1.
Thus, I grabbed 2 +1's for the 2000 kills, it all averaged out.
This has happened every single time, and has not proven me otherwise so far.
This in opposition to items with quality, there has been no indication that there is any pattern in their drop rate. They all seem to drop randomly

Why is this usefull?
For one, this will eliminate the need to pick up coats and dresses in fear that you could be missing a +1. If you do go say 4000 without a +1, the likelyhood of the next item being +1 is extremely high so you would concentrate on picking up either boots, neckies, rings, or anything with high profits.

Did this make sense to anyone?

[omega02]

+1s are like random like u pick up and item it might turn to a +1 its like random from when u pick it up.wlel i dotn get what im saying lol

[unknownone]

I say no. +1's are determined on item creation, and whether you, or anyone else picks it up, the composition has already been determined.

There's nothing to suggest otherwise.

[Sideburnz]

I get what your saying, basically, a dropped item is +1 for everyone. However if that was the case, then why does it differ from the ref,uni,eli, super items?
Why would the creaters make it differant?

How do you feel on the other aspect, that a +1 is generated by the client, and not the server, based on kills or dropped items?

[Fataladmin]

interesting theory..

[hellrazer]

i sort of agree with Sideburnz on the ideas... Igenerally get a +1 item around every 1000 kills... but... the other day i made a noob char for mining. i was gettin him plvled at elf apes, and the person diddnt notice that he missed a mullberry bow on the ground. the first item i ever picked up with that character was that mullberrybow.
I hadnt killed any monsters at all before that.i just went over and picked it up and it was +1.
I have come to the conclution that it dertermines on how many monsters have beemn killed in that area. like if there were 1000 kills in that area since u got there you will have the same chance as if you killed all 1000 of those monsters.

[omega02]

hmm still cant figure it out

[blep]

I most say its true,
Once I was tanking and my friend has been killing lots of mobs and get few mets and 1 +1
then I killed 1 mob, because it was close to me and hitting me to long
what dropped: super ring..

I think if my friend had killed that mob, nothing would drop.

[unknownone]

Originally posted by Sideburnz@Mar 25 2006, 14:52
I get what your saying, basically, a dropped item is +1 for everyone. However if that was the case, then why does it differ from the ref,uni,eli, super items?
Why would the creaters make it differant?

How do you feel on the other aspect, that a +1 is generated by the client, and not the server, based on kills or dropped items?

The quality of an item is generated as it is created, and I believe that all of its stats (sockets, composition, dura etc) are created at the same time. You can only see the quality of the item while it is on the ground, becuase thats the only thing sent by the server in the drop item packet. The other attributes still exist, the client doesn't know what they are until the receive item packet is obtained.

Besides, I KNOW for sure that the composition is not generated by the client, because i have completely reversed the protocol between client and server. There is no packet that can possibly hold that information sorry.

The '+1 are generated on pickup' theories are way off the mark. They add a whole new module of coding, and flags to say whether it has already been picked up, who by, etc, wasting memory and time, not something you tend to do on a MMO server.

Interesting theory you came up with, but anyone with experience with the conquer packets, or programming databases etc, knows that adding such flags can be tedious and should definately be avoided if possible. It would make perfect sense that the composition/sockets etc are creates as the item is created, removing the requirement of any checks and flags thereafter.

On a side note, soemtimes you find a +1 on one of your first kills. Other times, you can kill thousands of mobs. (I recall killing over 15,000 mobs with my archer and not getting a single +1 or elite). Its based on a percentage chance of drop detemined by a random number.

Lets say for example, the percentage chance for a +1 is 0.1%, every time you kill a monster, in theory you are increasing that chance, it becomes 0.2%, 0.3%, etc. Eventually, you'll get to 1000 kills, the percentage chance of gaining a +1 in that time is 0.1*1000, which interestingly enough is 100%. Make sense?

You might need to take the view of a programmer to get my point. Particularly developing high performance software like an MMO server, you save on resources anywhere possible. Why introduce a resource costing, biased system for item drops, when you could use a simple, pre-programmed random algorithm to obtain an unbiased result. You wouldn't, in any case.

[Sideburnz]

Ill take your word for it, its obvious that you got the programmers POV.
However, through killing 50000 elfapes, I have gotten about 50 +1's, but other things are not so certain. I have never picked up a db, and only 1 super in my life.

Is it just my luck that I seem to predictabally getting +1's per 1000 on average, and anything else seems to be completely random? Do +1's drop differantly than others? I often wonder of the programmers need to make sure that everything is balanced... or in other words, make sure that too much of a good thing does not happen, and vice-versa. Could a +1 drop pattern be essential to the level and ease of composition the creaters wanted?

[S.O]

Originally posted by unknownone+Mar 25 2006, 20:34--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (unknownone @ Mar 25 2006, 20:34)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Sideburnz@Mar 25 2006, 14:52
I get what your saying, basically, a dropped item is +1 for everyone. However if that was the case, then why does it differ from the ref,uni,eli, super items?
Why would the creaters make it differant?

How do you feel on the other aspect, that a +1 is generated by the client, and not the server, based on kills or dropped items?

The quality of an item is generated as it is created, and I believe that all of its stats (sockets, composition, dura etc) are created at the same time. You can only see the quality of the item while it is on the ground, becuase thats the only thing sent by the server in the drop item packet. The other attributes still exist, the client doesn't know what they are until the receive item packet is obtained.

Besides, I KNOW for sure that the composition is not generated by the client, because i have completely reversed the protocol between client and server. There is no packet that can possibly hold that information sorry.

The '+1 are generated on pickup' theories are way off the mark. They add a whole new module of coding, and flags to say whether it has already been picked up, who by, etc, wasting memory and time, not something you tend to do on a MMO server.

Interesting theory you came up with, but anyone with experience with the conquer packets, or programming databases etc, knows that adding such flags can be tedious and should definately be avoided if possible. It would make perfect sense that the composition/sockets etc are creates as the item is created, removing the requirement of any checks and flags thereafter.

On a side note, soemtimes you find a +1 on one of your first kills. Other times, you can kill thousands of mobs. (I recall killing over 15,000 mobs with my archer and not getting a single +1 or elite). Its based on a percentage chance of drop detemined by a random number.

Lets say for example, the percentage chance for a +1 is 0.1%, every time you kill a monster, in theory you are increasing that chance, it becomes 0.2%, 0.3%, etc. Eventually, you'll get to 1000 kills, the percentage chance of gaining a +1 in that time is 0.1*1000, which interestingly enough is 100%. Make sense?

You might need to take the view of a programmer to get my point. Particularly developing high performance software like an MMO server, you save on resources anywhere possible. Why introduce a resource costing, biased system for item drops, when you could use a simple, pre-programmed random algorithm to obtain an unbiased result. You wouldn't, in any case. [/b][/quote]
I agree on the part where the client cannot produce the +1.

However, I do think that kill count does, but in a different way

if (KillCount % RandomNumber == 0)
Item.Composition = 1;

or something like that - much more logical than keeping count of +1's a player made to drop.

but yea, the kill count number really matters as much as if a certain dove happens to poop on ur car on mondays or on thursdays...

[SmartGuy]

hrm, i dont think it matters on how much kill counts you got, because i was getting my water plvled and i found plenty of +1's.

[O RLY]

I killed 20k elfapes yesterday and my +1's were evenly distributed between 0-20k so i doubt this is true..

[Rorrim]

I once killed 1k elfapes and when I looked in my bag i found 3 +1s, it was on my luckiest char. then i did it on my main and got over 5k kills that same day, that same spawn and only got 1. But that was before a bunch of updates, maybe they changed it without us knowing.

[pinkflamingo]

I think +1s are random.

7k kills on my archer didn't get me a single +1.