This community

[Ultimation]

Originally Posted by ImmuneOne

I think you benefit more from when the new password encryption is released than the community itself. No way in hell someone cares this much about other unknown people.

Totally agree. if unknown people cared about this community then they would submit stuff, and not moan when things dont get submitted. its not down to this community to tell other people what they commit or not. if i wanted to crack a program, make a bot im not oblegated to to release it here. its just a bonus for everyone else if i do.

but lately people have been taking it for granted.

its as simple as that.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by ImmuneOne

I think you benefit more from when the new password encryption is released than the community itself. No way in hell someone cares this much about other unknown people.

Maybe. Perhaps it's because I am one of those people that can make something of it? Of course, you don't even think of that because you're probably more looking for a reason to call me selfish or greedy and that I want everything given to me.

To put it out there, yes. I'd love the have all the information I don't so that I can resume my age old C++ CO server project and bring it up to date. What plagued me back then was a lack of public information because TQ had just gone SSL and at that time, the only people capable of figuring anything new out and use the new client hoarded the information for a while telling everyone to figure it out themselves. It discouraged me from continuing and I was moving on in life so I left the project as it was as I had not the knowledge to get what I needed. I've been wanting to come back to CO ever since then but every time I take a look at the community it's still just the same. A few people who know it all looking down from high on all the people who struggle. It's a crude generalization, but you get the idea.

This thread spawned from the thoughts I had about how people in that guy's "$500 USD for encryption info" thread were saying they refused to help people no matter how much they offered. That and the hostility between people who had the info and those that didn't in that thread amazed me. "Some guy wanted to pay x$ and we told him to **** off. HAH!" that kind of ****. THAT, is where this thread came from.

[ImmuneOne]

Originally Posted by bone-you

Maybe. Perhaps it's because I am one of those people that can make something of it? Of course, you don't even think of that because you're probably more looking for a reason to call me selfish or greedy and that I want everything given to me.

To put it out there, yes. I'd love the have all the information I don't so that I can resume my age old C++ CO server project and bring it up to date. What plagued me back then was a lack of public information because TQ had just gone SSL and at that time, the only people capable of figuring anything new out and use the new client hoarded the information for a while telling everyone to figure it out themselves. It discouraged me from continuing and I was moving on in life so I left the project as it was as I had not the knowledge to get what I needed. I've been wanting to come back to CO ever since then but every time I take a look at the community it's still just the same. A few people who know it all looking down from high on all the people who struggle. It's a crude generalization, but you get the idea.

This thread spawned from the thoughts I had about how people in that guy's "$500 USD for encryption info" thread were saying they refused to help people no matter how much they offered. That and the hostility between people who had the info and those that didn't in that thread amazed me. "Some guy wanted to pay x$ and we told him to **** off. HAH!" that kind of ****. THAT, is where this thread came from.

Yeah but what you are asking and striving for is idealism that will never work in this community. And I don't get why you just don't drop it? I just can't bother to count the amount of trustworthy people that have been around for a long time that gave you the same advice.

[InfamousNoone]

Originally Posted by bone-you

Maybe. Perhaps it's because I am one of those people that can make something of it? Of course, you don't even think of that because you're probably more looking for a reason to call me selfish or greedy and that I want everything given to me.

To put it out there, yes. I'd love the have all the information I don't so that I can resume my age old C++ CO server project and bring it up to date. What plagued me back then was a lack of public information because TQ had just gone SSL and at that time, the only people capable of figuring anything new out and use the new client hoarded the information for a while telling everyone to figure it out themselves. It discouraged me from continuing and I was moving on in life so I left the project as it was as I had not the knowledge to get what I needed. I've been wanting to come back to CO ever since then but every time I take a look at the community it's still just the same. A few people who know it all looking down from high on all the people who struggle. It's a crude generalization, but you get the idea.

This thread spawned from the thoughts I had about how people in that guy's "$500 USD for encryption info" thread were saying they refused to help people no matter how much they offered. That and the hostility between people who had the info and those that didn't in that thread amazed me. "Some guy wanted to pay x$ and we told him to fuck off. HAH!" that kind of shit. THAT, is where this thread came from.

'Cause that guy is competition (referring to the end of your post, and the fact he's a complete 'tard). Cut him out of the market, take over the market further, capitalize, profit. It's like selling your trade secret to the competing company; it simply doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to do with the fact, "Oh, we feel threatened by the existence of competition" but rather, "Without the competition, we'd me maximizing sales."

edit;
So that raises the question I suppose, "Ok, well, it's obvious at this point he has it, what's the harm in releasing it?" and there's two things to consider here.
As Ultimation pointed out there is no credit received what so ever and seeing people profit off of our hard work is simply a tad irritating. The second point being it prevents any new bots from entering the competition ring without a loooooot of work.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by ImmuneOne

Yeah but what you are asking and striving for is idealism that will never work in this community. And I don't get why you just don't drop it? I just can't bother to count the amount of trustworthy people that have been around for a long time that gave you the same advice.

I don't drop it because people continue to respond. As long as this thread is viewed there is a chance to change peoples' minds or spark something new. Anything.

[ImmuneOne]

Originally Posted by bone-you

I don't drop it because people continue to respond. As long as this thread is viewed there is a chance to change peoples' minds or spark something new. Anything.

It's not other people's job to make the community better, and if you truely want to change their mind you make an effort and contribute. If you want other people to believe in your ideals you show them it is worth it's while.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by bone-you

No, I'll pass. I don't like teaching. I get frustrated easily when people don't understand things. This doesn't have to be a "school". I don't get where you get "school" from though. No one here has to teach anyone, but it's unreasonable to expect someone to learn everything requires to obtain the information, for you to give it to them. It defeats the purpose. It also is a daunting task and many will instead avoid learning it. What it ends up doing is pushing more people away from being a contributing part of the community.

I don't see how handing someone something is benefiting or furthering the community at all. That's been done for years in this community. I'd much rather this be a "school" than a giveaway. It's like being a boss at your job and paying people who don't go to work. It just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, when something we release has every feature someone wants nicely coded in, what motivation do they have for giving back to the community (or even getting to the level of being useful enough to give back)?

@Ultimation - The levels idea is great. I've thought about that before, but to my knowledge, underground is hell to get access to.

[InfamousNoone]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I don't see how handing someone something is benefiting or furthering the community at all. That's been done for years in this community. I'd much rather this be a "school" than a giveaway. It's like being a boss at your job and paying people who don't go to work. It just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, when something we release has every feature someone wants nicely coded in, what motivation do they have for giving back to the community (or even getting to the level of being useful enough to give back)?

@Ultimation - The levels idea is great. I've thought about that before, but to my knowledge, underground is hell to get access to.

It's not hard to get access to, it's just the people running it have zero common sense. I'm still waiting for an explanation why people like XtremeCO and I were kicked out and someone like Mio was let in. I simply can't understand the logic. <- I will always hold this vendetta against e*pvp for that. I completely understand why Ultimation is mad about having lost Lv.2

As far as what we've been demonstrated, it would appear that e*pvp's administrators themselves have demonstrated they aren't interested in who is and who isn't capable.

[Ultimation]

happy to see im not the only one who got kicked down. i was in level 2 a while back, and got knocked back down.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by ImmuneOne

It's not other people's job to make the community better, and if you truely want to change their mind you make an effort and contribute. If you want other people to believe in your ideals you show them it is worth it's while.

You know very well that if I were to go the distance and do a whole bunch of stuff.. doesn't matter what, it wouldn't suddenly get the people with info to release it to the public. Yea, sure. I might get it. But that doesn't solve the issue at hand. I would have just spent probably months to obtain something that would have probably been obsoleted at that point by another change. If you're going to say "well then they might let you in on the new one", I'd have to respond with "were my prior submissions to the community not good enough to warrant that now?" But this isn't about me personally. It was about how people were acting towards each other.

edit: feel I need to add something to this.. the issue I have is with the current system of who gets to be told the new things. I'm not complaining because I won't be told because as I've said I haven't even asked yet. If what comes out of this is a better control over the UG and Lv2 groups to encourage more community growth that'd be absolutely fantastic.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I don't see how handing someone something is benefiting or furthering the community at all. That's been done for years in this community. I'd much rather this be a "school" than a giveaway. It's like being a boss at your job and paying people who don't go to work. It just doesn't make sense. Furthermore, when something we release has every feature someone wants nicely coded in, what motivation do they have for giving back to the community (or even getting to the level of being useful enough to give back)?

Don't expect 100% of people who leech to give back. Most people will not give back. It's unavoidable because of how this works. We're not torrenting here where you can remove people who don't contribute in turn for taking so people are going to take as much as they can because they can. But there are plenty of people who could be motivated to if they had the tools available (such as encryption routines, packet info, even a server skeleton base that they can start from). These sorts of things can help spark new submissions. They certainly can't hurt the community. The worst that'd happen by releasing something is there are a lot of questions regarding it.. but doesn't that drive more traffic here and possibly encourage more people to get into it?

[ImmuneOne]

Originally Posted by bone-you

You know very well that if I were to go the distance and do a whole bunch of stuff.. doesn't matter what, it wouldn't suddenly get the people with info to release it to the public. Yea, sure. I might get it. But that doesn't solve the issue at hand. I would have just spent probably months to obtain something that would have probably been obsoleted at that point by another change. If you're going to say "well then they might let you in on the new one", I'd have to respond with "were my prior submissions to the community not good enough to warrant that now?" But this isn't about me personally. It was about how people were acting towards each other.

But aren't you being a huge hypocrite right now then? What about the time spent by cracking it? There is no use in keeping the discussion going if you want people to give up their hard work and time for the rest of the community who doesn't even bother to be thankful?

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by ImmuneOne

But aren't you being a huge hypocrite right now then? What about the time spent by cracking it? There is no use in keeping the discussion going if you want people to give up their hard work and time for the rest of the community who doesn't even bother to be thankful?

Ah, but who said people like me wouldn't be thankful? Someone like myself would respond to that by giving back to the community. Not everyone would, but there are still some that would.

The deal is it's obvious information is already shared by the "elites". At least some that are on good terms with each other and aren't ddos'ing or hacking. Why do they "give up" their hard work to each other then? Because they've proven themselves? Then what does it take to be "worthy"?

Perhaps it's just an issue with heirarchy. There is no established system anymore since UG and Lv2 fell through.

[Korvacs]

The underground is as difficult to get in as the members of the underground deem it to be, however the leader of the underground is required to request an admin to add members that they believe are acceptable.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

The underground is as difficult to get in as the members of the underground deem it to be, however the leader of the underground is required to request an admin to add members that they believe are acceptable.

UG used to be good. Used to have things shared in it all the time but it didn't last long.

[ImmuneOne]

Originally Posted by bone-you

Ah, but who said people like me wouldn't be thankful? Someone like myself would respond to that by giving back to the community. Not everyone would, but there are still some that would.

The deal is it's obvious information is already shared by the "elites". At least some that are on good terms with each other and aren't ddos'ing or hacking. Why do they "give up" their hard work to each other then? Because they've proven themselves? Then what does it take to be "worthy"?

But that's what korvacs has been saying the whole time now, hasn't he? There is a small majority of the community who will be thankful and will contribute back but that doesn't include the bigger majority who will privately develop on their sources without giving any credits to noone.