This community

[Lateralus]

Okay, this began as a good discussion, but now it's turning into a flame war because of personal grudges. We've already made our points, but because I think we can all agree that we have some issues with the community, I'll keep it open, in hopes that new people state their views on it, and maybe to find a solution. The last few pages were just personal attacks and reiterating your own opinions, so... stop that.

[Ultimation]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Okay, this began as a good discussion, but now it's turning into a flame war because of personal grudges. We've already made our points, but because I think we can all agree that we have some issues with the community, I'll keep it open, in hopes that new people state their views on it, and maybe to find a solution. The last few pages were just personal attacks and reiterating your own opinions, so... stop that.

id say we go back to levels again, the people who prove themselfs get put a level that leachers cant get too. then between the higher levels we can decide between us what to pass down.

[Korvacs]

The underground still exists, but the last time i tried to enforce a restriction on encryption (which is present for all other sections) the community QQed about it and the restriction was removed and it was allowed to be posted freely.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

id say we go back to levels again, the people who prove themselfs get put a level that leachers cant get too. then between the higher levels we can decide between us what to pass down.

That only works if all or the majority of people capable of doing something with the knowledge have access or can obtain access with relative ease. Locking it away for 3-5 people for them to use exclusively creates a gap between them and the community. This entire section was created to create pservers to give people an alternative to official. Can't we maintain that?

[InfamousNoone]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

The underground still exists, but the last time i tried to enforce a restriction on encryption (which is present for all other sections) the community QQed about it and the restriction was removed and it was allowed to be posted freely.

Underground failed because people like me and Dan got kicked out, and for some reason someone like Mio (don't know what their name currently, but you know who I'm talking about) got let in. It made no sense what so ever.

[Ultimation]

Originally Posted by bone-you

That only works if all or the majority of people capable of doing something with the knowledge have access or can obtain access with relative ease. Locking it away for 3-5 people for them to use exclusively creates a gap between them and the community. This entire section was created to create pservers to give people an alternative to official. Can't we maintain that?

yes, but that information could be passed down once it becomes "invalid" i.e tq releases a change. that way people would still get it, and be able to learn from it, "educational purposes".

once people then work it out and start submitting things they could get moved up a level.

at the moment you have 10000000 people googling COnquer Bots, they come here and just expect to be given everything. then tq change something, us developers have to work our ***** off to get what they changed. just so the googlers can come and take it again. then post it on other forums claiming its there own?


at least with a level system you have some control on that.

[Korvacs]

Agreed theres also that fact, currently Mio still runs it to my knowledge, despite having very little understand of Conquer, or its exploits.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

yes, but that information could be passed down once it becomes "invalid" i.e tq releases a change. that way people would still get it, and be able to learn from it, "educational purposes".

once people then work it out and start submitting things they could get moved up a level.

at the moment you have 10000000 people googling COnquer Bots, they come here and just expect to be given everything. then tq change something, us developers have to work our ***** off to get what they changed. just so the googlers can come and take it again. then post it on other forums claiming its there own?


at least with a level system you have some control on that.

A level system is fine. I have no issues with that. The issue I have is people holding onto their information as if letting it go will kill them. I don't have an issue with "show us you're capable and you can join us" deal. As long as the method of getting in isn't "you must be fluent in 8 coding languages and be able to figure out the hardest thing TQ just changed to be able to be one of us". Reasonable levels with reasonable ways to obtain what you need will allow this community to thrive.

[Ultimation]

yea. i agreee, but people will just moan especially the newbies when they cant get up, for watever reason. thats when it all goes down hill again

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

yea. i agreee, but people will just moan especially the newbies when they cant get up, for watever reason. thats when it all goes down hill again

The people who have no use for the knowledge can be ignored. Let's take the password encryption as an example. If you're not making a bot or a pserver or a proxy, you ultimately have no reason to want it. People like that can be safely ignored. The people that do want to do those things and are capable though, it used to be beyond difficult as hell to obtain what you needed to pull it off. I don't know how hard it is now as I actually haven't asked anyone flat out for the new password encryption to see if I'd get refused or not, but I'm willing to bet the majority will never see it until TQ changes it again. Even those that are capable of putting it to good use. It goes down hill when those people are ignored.

[Ultimation]

your not understanding what im saying, people who cant obtain the encryption should learn the required tasks, we are a hacking community, not a school. if people want to learn they should not say, im gonna learn c# so i can build a conquer server, how do i do a if statement for example..

go buy the books learn the proper way, follow online videos/tutorials. its not something they are going to learn in 5 minutes as every coder knows.

and as every coder knows. things rarely work the first time.


Lets say we release the password encryption. what next? 100000 noobs asking how to add it to binaries, how to add it to server? help plz. you spend your time helping them. then thats it, not thanks, no credit.

i can see why the encryption has been kept quiet, its nothing todo with money. we are all sick to death of providing the community and a bunch of noobs what they need without anything in return. without even the curtosy to say hey, XXXX helped me with this. thanks alot man.

why do we bother?

all i can say is keeping up this attitude of everything must be given away. will just push the few coders that are left away to some place else, then epvp will have no one except noobs making guides on how to socket things wich arent even true.



Lets get to the bottom line.

there are only a few of us who reversed the new crypto, and yet we are expected to deliver here. what if we just deleted our accounts and left?

who would you expect to deliver then?

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

your not understanding what im saying, people who cant obtain the encryption should learn the required tasks, we are a hacking community, not a school. if people want to learn they should not say, im gonna learn c# so i can build a conquer server, how do i do a if statement for example..

go buy the books learn the proper way, follow online videos/tutorials. its not something they are going to learn in 5 minutes as every coder knows.

and as every coder knows. things rarely work the first time.


Lets say we release the password encryption. what next? 100000 noobs asking how to add it to binaries, how to add it to server? help plz. you spend your time helping them. then thats it, not thanks, no credit.

i can see why the encryption has been kept quiet, its nothing todo with money. we are all sick to death of providing the community and a bunch of noobs what they need without anything in return. without even the curtosy to say hey, XXXX helped me with this. thanks alot man.

why do we bother?

all i can say is keeping up this attitude of everything must be given away. will just push the few coders that are left away to some place else, then epvp will have no one except noobs making guides on how to socket things wich arent even true.

So it's just like my exaggeration. To join the exclusive club, you must already be able to figure it all out.. in which case you don't even need to be a part of it. It's less about giving it to EVERYONE, and more about giving it to those that actually have a use for it. So what if randoms ask how to add it to bins? You have two ways to go about that. Someone can actually DO something like that and release it, or ignore it. BUT, the information is out there now for someone else to do it for you. Right now, the only way to obtain the password enc is to actually pull it from the client itself. Not exactly friendly to most people unless you know assembly. Even coders. Not all coders know asm (and while you can argue that they should, and I'll agree with you), does that mean they shouldn't be able to make use of it?

You even said that you'd like levels and people to prove themselves to get in. At what point are they worthy though? Making them learn everything you know and can do defeats the purpose of getting in. Instead of being a goal of people learning, it looks more like a group of elitist assholes making everyone do it themselves.

[Ultimation]

this brings me back down to, this isnt a friggin school.

secondly if we hadnt had told anyone we had the encryption no one would have known, and this whole issue would have been avoided. it works both ways, not just give give give.

if you want to spend time teaching people all day, thats upto you. but im certianly not doing it. (i cant speak for everyone else).

ive got no issues joining projects with people. but i wont just turn around and give them answers. things have to earned not just given. unless your from a rich family who just buys you everything.

People who are worthy, are people who u can give them the answer and they know what todo with it, those whom just stare and are like wtf? arnt worth any answers.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

this brings me back down to, this isnt a friggin school.

secondly if we hadnt had told anyone we had the encryption no one would have known, and this whole issue would have been avoided. it works both ways, not just give give give.

if you want to spend time teaching people all day, thats upto you. but im certianly not doing it. (i cant speak for everyone else).

No, I'll pass. I don't like teaching. I get frustrated easily when people don't understand things. This doesn't have to be a "school". I don't get where you get "school" from though. No one here has to teach anyone, but it's unreasonable to expect someone to learn everything requires to obtain the information, for you to give it to them. It defeats the purpose. It also is a daunting task and many will instead avoid learning it. What it ends up doing is pushing more people away from being a contributing part of the community.

[ImmuneOne]

Originally Posted by bone-you

So it's just like my exaggeration. To join the exclusive club, you must already be able to figure it all out.. in which case you don't even need to be a part of it. It's less about giving it to EVERYONE, and more about giving it to those that actually have a use for it. So what if randoms ask how to add it to bins? You have two ways to go about that. Someone can actually DO something like that and release it, or ignore it. BUT, the information is out there now for someone else to do it for you. Right now, the only way to obtain the password enc is to actually pull it from the client itself. Not exactly friendly to most people unless you know assembly. Even coders. Not all coders know asm (and while you can argue that they should, and I'll agree with you), does that mean they shouldn't be able to make use of it?

You even said that you'd like levels and people to prove themselves to get in. At what point are they worthy though? Making them learn everything you know and can do defeats the purpose of getting in. Instead of being a goal of people learning, it looks more like a group of elitist ******** making everyone do it themselves.

I think you benefit more from when the new password encryption is released than the community itself. No way in hell someone cares this much about other unknown people.