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[request] 3DC files assist

Discussion on [request] 3DC files assist within the Shaiya Private Server forum part of the Shaiya category.

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Old 04/30/2013, 11:07   #31
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBear94 View Post
in case we want to get these to work we would need to find a way to connect the files propper with the ANI files or we even have to create completly new ANI files. But yet this isnt worth the work in my eyes.
Can you tell me this character's 'torso' and hand objects are in one .3dc file?

I am thinking on other easily way (without using external .ms script), because I don't know 100% the XNALara exporter really works fine ?

- Export the original .3dc file as 3D Studio .3ds format
- Import it to 3D Studio Max
- Modify the 3d geometry (except Bones, and Vertex Weight datas)
- Export it to .3ds format
- Import it to 3D O. C.
- Export it to .3dc file (with select the original .3dc file).
- The exported .3dc file will contain the original Bone; Vertex Bone datas with the new 3d geometry.


I will make/upload this version today.
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Old 04/30/2013, 14:01   #32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
Can you tell me this character's 'torso' and hand objects are in one .3dc file?
they kind of are there is always still gaunts but these take just a small part
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Old 04/30/2013, 14:22   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBear94 View Post
they kind of are there is always still gaunts but these take just a small part
I am sorry, but I don't understand your answer.

This character model uses two .3dc files for torso and hand, or it uses one .3dc file only?
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Old 04/30/2013, 16:18   #34
 
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Zoltan, let me explain with other words.

first some definitions / concepts:

in Shaiya world, only characters (and animals) are animated - I should say can be deformed.
All other items, including weapons (defined by .3DO files) have a static shape, of course they can move / translate / rotate but they just follow the movements of their support or those of the character who uses them.
By comparison, in Aion, the arms of a bow deform when shooting an arrow or a sword can extend to strike.

this implies that item (.3DE) and weapons (.3DO) models do not include any bones information.

OOH, characters & mounts (both defined by .3DC files) can be animated, but the supported movements are (for short) limited, and these movements are the same whatever the clothes worn. (in Aion, the movements of a gear are specific to its own shape). this is because animations (the actual description of any animation, which is a set of spatial movement / deformation) are unique for a given class & ***.
Of course these animations are computed for a known set of fixed bones, and all movements definitions intimately rely on these bones (moving the left elbow is not the same than the right knee, so count of bones & indexes of each one are fixed).

this implies that .3DC files do include bones information and the bones array in strictly the same for all gear of a class / *** (eg the boots, gants, pants, top and helmet files of a male warrior are 5 different files (for a given set), but they all contain (start with) the exact same array of bones - and, once again, these bones are the same for all sets (all gears) of that class / ***).

because, the meaning of each bone is conditioned by the "animation engine" which is specific to the game (at least with Shaiya that doesn't define actions for each item), the generation of bones can not be managed as you propose to, but would be, imho, simply copied from a template (one per class & ***), of course this will implies that the destination class must be provided to the export method - "on the fly" question, or global option, up to you
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Old 04/30/2013, 20:57   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castor4878 View Post
this implies that item (.3DE) and weapons (.3DO) models do not include any bones information.
Holly sh*t, the .3DE is a new file format for me. I did not look into the Effect directory before....

Quote:
Originally Posted by castor4878 View Post
because, the meaning of each bone is conditioned by the "animation engine" which is specific to the game (at least with Shaiya that doesn't define actions for each item), the generation of bones can not be managed as you propose to, but would be, imho, simply copied from a template (one per class & sex), of course this will implies that the destination class must be provided to the export method - "on the fly" question, or global option, up to you
Thank you for your information. I think my concept was correct, because the import/export bone datas without modification does not spoil the order of bones.



TeddyBear94
As I promised I modified the .3dc save procedure (it supports the old and new .3dc file both).

I uploaded the latest version of my program (unpublished yet officially) to my web page:



Can you test the following procedure?

- Export the original .3dc file as 3D Studio .3ds format
- Import it to 3D Studio Max
- Modify the 3d geometry (except Bones, and Vertex Weight datas)
- Export it to .3ds format
- Import it to 3D O. C.
- Export it to .3dc file (with select the original .3dc file).
- The exported .3dc file will contain the original Bone; Vertex Bone datas with the new 3d geometry.
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Old 04/30/2013, 21:32   #36
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
Holly sh*t, the .3DE is a new file format for me. I did not look into the Effect directory before....



Thank you for your information. I think my concept was correct, because the import/export bone datas without modification does not spoil the order of bones.



TeddyBear94
As I promised I modified the .3dc save procedure (it supports the old and new .3dc file both).

I uploaded the latest version of my program (unpublished yet officially) to my web page:



Can you test the following procedure?

- Export the original .3dc file as 3D Studio .3ds format
- Import it to 3D Studio Max
- Modify the 3d geometry (except Bones, and Vertex Weight datas)
- Export it to .3ds format
- Import it to 3D O. C.
- Export it to .3dc file (with select the original .3dc file).
- The exported .3dc file will contain the original Bone; Vertex Bone datas with the new 3d geometry.
mh i wonder if it is rly needed to modify it in 3d studio max as i didnt done that step yet in any kind since its not needed at all
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Old 05/01/2013, 08:37   #37
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyBear94 View Post
mh i wonder if it is rly needed to modify it in 3d studio max as i didnt done that step yet in any kind since its not needed at all
I thought the 3DS MAX is your 3d modeler program. As I know you can open the .3ds format with the LightWave3D or GMAX also.
(The XNALara .ms script is for 3DS MAX also).

I hope this way will work, otherwise I will remove the .3dc save module from my program.
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Old 05/01/2013, 10:13   #38
 
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until now i only modded the weps/gears just with ur program and it went quiet fine. i didnt had to use a 2nd program as it seems ur program is more capable for the job as u think . i got now a few time i will test it out.
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Old 05/01/2013, 10:58   #39
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
Holly sh*t, the .3DE is a new file format for me. I did not look into the Effect directory before
.3DE files are very similar to the .3DO ones; the file structure is the same, only the Vertice structure is a bit different (it doesn't contain a normal point):

Code:
// having:
typedef struct _Vertex3DE {
	float	x, y, z;	// 3D point
	long	indx;		// an index or ...
	float	u, v;		// texture coords
} Vertices3DE;

/* the 'indx' field could be an index in the not present bones array,
or a RGBA mask (used with GL_ALPHA_TEST?), its value is always -1 (likely 'RFU') */

// and:
typedef struct _Faces {
	unsigned short		i1, i2, i3;
} Faces;

// the .3DE format is:

typedef struct _Struct3DE {
	long	lengthOfTextureFile; // null for 99.9% of file
	char	*path; // path of tex file, absent for almost all files
	long	numberOfVertices;
	Vertices3DE	*vert;	// the vertices
	long	numberOfFaces;
	Faces	*faces;
} Struct3DE;
as an exemple, the attached 1mago01.3DE file is read as:


Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
Thank you for your information. I think my concept was correct, because the import/export bone datas without modification does not spoil the order of bones.
I'm agree with you on that.

But still, the procedure requires several operations for a known result - we have to extract some bones, preserve them, and re-import them, whereas these bones are (shall be) known. The operation also relies on Studio 3D max, an additional program that I personaly don't use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
[...]
I hope this way will work, otherwise I will remove the .3dc save module from my program.
Don't please !!
(expect if you mean: remove the module that allows the selection of an existing .3DC file to merge it with the currently loaded bones data (merging of a .3ds with a .3dc))

Being able to read a .chr file and to save it as .3DC is definitively needed. The only point without agreement is how to define the right bones for the right class / sex character.
My response for that very specific and limited question is that your export module should insert an empty (!) bones array (meaning only a int32 null counter). It's up to the user to know which class will use the converted gear and thus to insert the right bone array at the beginning of the file. (more or less a 3 sec operation).
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File Type: zip 1mago01.zip (4.0 KB, 73 views)
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Old 05/01/2013, 13:56   #40
 
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Quote:
Being able to read a .chr file and to save it as .3DC is definitively needed.
the .chr extension is actually NOT the right one...

since days () I'm looking for the files in the AION hierarchy that do contains these gears.

I did process 2411 .pak files & extract nearly but I didn't find any .chr nor .cdf files.
If one of you can let me know extension I shall look for, I will greatly appreciate.

.
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Old 05/01/2013, 14:15   #41
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castor4878 View Post
Don't please !!
(expect if you mean: remove the module that allows the selection of an existing .3DC file to merge it with the currently loaded bones data (merging of a .3ds with a .3dc))
I thought for the full .3dc save module...

Quote:
Originally Posted by castor4878 View Post
If one of you can let me know extension I shall look for, I will greatly appreciate.
As I know the Aion: Tower of Eternity game uses the .cgf 3d model format.
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Old 05/01/2013, 16:08   #42
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
I thought for the full .3dc save module...
already want to give up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KZ_3D View Post
As I know the Aion: Tower of Eternity game uses the .cgf 3d model format.
indeed, thanks.

I gave a try to the lmch_c004_body.cgf gear file in Objects/pc/lm/Mesh_Meshes_000.pak, and I was (finally) able to test your export .3DC module.

The module prompts for an "original .3DC file", I select a valid .3DC top gear from Shaiya files. One from the right class / sex.

The generated file is valid but contains a single bone in the bones array. I did it 3 times, may be I did the same mistake 3 times or something is not valid there.
I so replace that 1-bone array by the full (38 bones) array of a .3DC top file.

At this point, I assume I'm more or less at same stage than Teddy and I obtain:



some points (arms mainly) are not at their positions, paintful but not a surprise, the positions of the base skeleton of both Shaiya & Aion have no reason to be the same.

but more boring: the body's animations don't work. the body as a whole can move (around vertical axis or back and forth)




but the arms (shoulders, ...) show no animations.

Switching back to previous assumptions, it appears that the bones array is identical for "a significant number" of gears but not all - at first time I saw some diff. but they were less than 0.1%; checking *all* files, I found significant differences. More puzzling the number of bones is not always the same ("there is only fools who don't change their minds").

for the human, male, fighter class, we have:

humf_torso001 .. 006 38 bones
humf_torso007 42 bones
humf_torso008 38 bones
humf_torso010,11 36 bones
humf_upper012,12B 36 bones
humf_upper013,13_A,13_B,14,14_A 72 bones
co_humf_upper003,4,5 40 bones

it was so invalid to assume that the (for instance) 3rd point is always the right elbow and thus that the animation files act with predefined list of knwon bones; they have some prerequesites (they have to) but they are a bit smarter, or at least unknown.

so far, I don't know to parse the whole .ani files, I so can't go further.

one possible explanation is the "weight" associated to vertex in mesh data.
the shaiya tops use value ranging 0 up to 1 (most of files use a set iof discrete values such as 0; 0.2; 0.5; 0.7; 0.8; 0.9; 1.0), in the converted files all weights are set to 1.0; do these weights used to define some "local barycenters" of animations ?... idk, any 3D expert (hmm so Zoltan) inputs are welcome.

Edit:
-------------------------------------------

the answser is stored in the 'bone' field of the Vertex3DC records.

as an example, the Character/human/3DC/humf_torso001.3dc file consists in:


this struct contains 38 bones and the values found in these vertices range 2 up to 20 ORed with some flags (bits 8 to 12 (1 based) of the int32 value).

my viewer is not able to draw "bones points" (Zolta, any help to ""extract"" the 3D coords from the 4*4 matrix will be welcome), so I can not check their position but I won't be surprised if the bones #21 to #38 are in legs and foots, and thus not used by this top.

the actual use of the bit modifiers and the way to use the bone whose index is provided is of course still a puzzle; as will be the generation of such data.
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Old 05/02/2013, 21:03   #43
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castor4878 View Post
one possible explanation is the "weight" associated to vertex in mesh data. the shaiya tops use value ranging 0 up to 1 (most of files use a set iof discrete values such as 0; 0.2; 0.5; 0.7; 0.8; 0.9; 1.0), in the converted files all weights are set to 1.0;
I looked into my program and I know what was the problem.

The exporter module wrote the Vertex Bone Weight datas into the new .3dc file when the loaded object were weighted, otherwise wrote an empty record. I removed this condition from the exporter module.

I think the procedure did you use is totally wrong:
The .cgf geometry + the Bones and Vertex Bone Weight datas from an external .3dc file.


I uploaded the modified version of my program (unpublished yet officially) to my web page:
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Old 08/10/2014, 07:22   #44
 
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is possible transform one 3do to 3dc?.



file 3do top and dds.
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Old 08/10/2014, 10:24   #45
 
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Quote:
is possible transform one 3do to 3dc?.
what will be the purpose ??
I recall that .3DO files are used for weapons ... do you want to draw your toons with an axe instead of his head and some swords instead of legs ?

at least dig up this thread reminds me that I am still awaiting the response of Zoltan on the format of bones (they ared displayed at their right positions by 3D Converter)
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