ISNOGI [Developmental Discussion]

[adam_j]

Originally Posted by Tachiorz

Messing with pake is hackery and not acceptible for end user. Dragging and dropping = hard? When the hell did that happen? ._.
How can it be made:
* older ver of mabi client (without themida) within it's own subfolder in mabi folder with ripped of hs and modded to access data from parent folred.
* simulator executable that run modded client with simple button "RUN"
- it spawns few threads that listen apropriate ports and do their work
- have one premade account (demo/demo for example)
- it's simplified to run only one player
- have one area with spawned NPC shops
- have ability to save player state in some own data format

Well thats all. Player install this shet, run and dress up in fancy clothes

End user has to drag and drop an install, including pake, into a folder.
Pake modules are premade.
EU client has working pake, working HS removal, and is discontinued.

The pake module method is so simple in both execution and design, that I could produce it, by myself, and with all those features you have outlined.

Saving? Yep.
Single player? Yep.
Text command based(For spawning items/faces/etc)? Yep.
Simple launch? Yep.
In an installer? Could do, but why bother? Archive, extract to anywhere, run it.


Since you seem to have no concept of how pake works, I shall explain the steps of installing/running the solution I have outlined:

1. Download.
2. Install.
3. Run.
4. Login using any details.
5. Pick your character
6. ????
7. Profit.

Sure sounds hackery and unacceptable to me.


Why are you even arguing this by the way?
If it's so simple to do it your way, why do you not simply go and do so?

Honestly, if I even thought for a second that I'd ever use a "dress up module", I'd produce it.
However, I'm not a "fashionista", thus I have no interest in such things, I'm simply explaining that what you want can be done infinitely easier/faster in the method outlined, both for Kev, and the end user.

I'm perfectly willing to assist you with it though, if you actually have any intention of exerting any effort in the matter.

[TNinja]

Just wondering. This site is pretty known already, wouldn't NEXON be able to shut down this before it even launches?

[adam_j]

Originally Posted by TNinja

Just wondering. This site is pretty known already, wouldn't NEXON be able to shut down this before it even launches?

If they sued everyone that pretended they had a working Pserver, they'd never get any work do-


Suddenly everything makes sense.

[Tachiorz]

Originally Posted by adam_j

End user has to drag and drop an install, including pake, into a folder.
Pake modules are premade.
EU client has working pake, working HS removal, and is discontinued.

The pake module method is so simple in both execution and design, that I could produce it, by myself, and with all those features you have outlined.

Saving? Yep.
Single player? Yep.
Text command based(For spawning items/faces/etc)? Yep.
Simple launch? Yep.
In an installer? Could do, but why bother? Archive, extract to anywhere, run it.


Since you seem to have no concept of how pake works, I shall explain the steps of installing/running the solution I have outlined:

1. Download.
2. Install.
3. Run.
4. Login using any details.
5. Pick your character
6. ????
7. Profit.

Sure sounds hackery and unacceptable to me.


Why are you even arguing this by the way?
If it's so simple to do it your way, why do you not simply go and do so?

Honestly, if I even thought for a second that I'd ever use a "dress up module", I'd produce it.
However, I'm not a "fashionista", thus I have no interest in such things, I'm simply explaining that what you want can be done infinitely easier/faster in the method outlined, both for Kev, and the end user.

I'm perfectly willing to assist you with it though, if you actually have any intention of exerting any effort in the matter.

I see you thoughts now. Didn't considered emulating loggin in to server completly in pake. I have doubts that it'll work without actual connection. Never tried that. And i don't have client without HS, Yiting thing don't disable it, just bypasses.
But it may work, we can listen some ports locally and connect to them, if it won't.
Nice idea after all

[adam_j]

Originally Posted by Tachiorz

I see you thoughts now. Didn't considered emulating loggin in to server completly in pake. I have doubts that it'll work without actual connection. Never tried that. And i don't have client without HS, Yiting thing don't disable it, just bypasses.
But it may work, we can listen some ports locally and connect to them, if it won't.
Nice idea after all

You can indeed emulate the entire thing, without a server connection, by simply having a program replay packets to the client, on login request.

Program gets you to the Char screen, pake module does everything else, simple :3

[Tachiorz]

Originally Posted by adam_j

You can indeed emulate the entire thing, without a server connection, by simply having a program replay packets to the client, on login request.

Program gets you to the Char screen, pake module does everything else, simple :3

Did you got it past char screen to actual game? Client receives channels IP's, if i remember correctly.

On other hand it might not even needed, just get it to character creation. If packets to change equips would work there.

[jas161]

Originally Posted by TNinja

Just wondering. This site is pretty known already, wouldn't NEXON be able to shut down this before it even launches?

Nexon have no grounds what so ever from Kev's current proof, they have to provide evidence that the private sever is working and in breach of their tos.

Also they would need to investigate Kev as to his where about some places in the world where Nexon wouldn't even bother going to such lengths to sue. (points to middle eastern countries)

Nexon Representative: I have a court order for Kev

Middle eastern guy: FLEM FLEM!! FLEM!!! -Shoots the fool-

[adam_j]

Originally Posted by jas161

Nexon have no grounds what so ever from Kev's current proof, they have to provide evidence that the private sever is working and in breach of their tos.

Also they would need to investigate Kev as to his where about some places in the world where Nexon wouldn't even bother going to such lengths to sue. (points to middle eastern countries)

Nexon Representative: I have a court order for Kev

Middle eastern guy: FLEM FLEM!! FLEM!!! -Shoots the fool-

Actually, I'm pretty sure they could take all of us to court as it stands, it's merely the fact that we're not a threat to their continued earning that keeps them from doing so, nor would it be worth the negative publicity.
(Would you be willing to play any game published by people who actually sued a group of people using mostly visual modifications?)


Modification of proprietary software, via reversing or any other means, is illegal, as I understand it.

Proprietary software - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proprietary software is computer software licensed under exclusive legal right of the copyright holder. The licensee is given the right to use the software under certain conditions, while restricted from other uses, such as modification, further distribution, or reverse engineering.

Bolded part, to me at least, sounds as if it would represent a legal agreement.
I'm not making any claims to being an expert on the law however, so if anyone who does happen to have relevant experience would care to correct me, please feel free.


So, it seems Kev could probably post a video of himself playing on his private server, but until such time as they feel that he is posing a threat to their service, they will simply do nothing.

They would also need adequate proof that Kev isn't simply a MASTER of photoshop, or some other editing tool, or they would run the risk of taking him to court over nothing.



tl;dr: We're not worth their time, and they cannot be bothered.

[jas161]

Originally Posted by adam_j

Actually, I'm pretty sure they could take all of us to court as it stands, it's merely the fact that we're not a threat to their continued earning that keeps them from doing so, nor would it be worth the negative publicity.
(Would you be willing to play any game published by people who actually sued a group of people using mostly visual modifications?)


Modification of proprietary software, via reversing or any other means, is illegal, as I understand it.

Proprietary software - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proprietary software is computer software licensed under exclusive legal right of the copyright holder. The licensee is given the right to use the software under certain conditions, while restricted from other uses, such as modification, further distribution, or reverse engineering.

Bolded part, to me at least, sounds as if it would represent a legal agreement.
I'm not making any claims to being an expert on the law however, so if anyone who does happen to have relevant experience would care to correct me, please feel free.


So, it seems Kev could probably post a video of himself playing on his private server, but until such time as they feel that he is posing a threat to their service, they will simply do nothing.

They would also need adequate proof that Kev isn't simply a MASTER of photoshop, or some other editing tool, or they would run the risk of taking him to court over nothing.



tl;dr: We're not worth their time, and they cannot be bothered.

Basically until kev releases the private server Nexon will probably do nothing, also I think everyone has forgot that this is Mabinogi does Nexon even care anymore. I mean EU shut down their server and passed the burden on to NA. Such a shame Nexon had to host Mabinogi it was a really great game.

[Jemdo]

So we could code custom AI now? (if u aren't into it right now)

// Code for anticlockwise circling around a target at wanderDistance range with initial direction initAngle (0 for x axis 90 for y axis)
	int maxAngle = 720;
	int curAngle = 0;
	public void CircleAround(MabiCreature target, int initAngle)
	{
		// dunno exists it or not but used target.GetLocation() to determine player position
		curAngle = initAngle;
		double dangle = Math.PI / 360; // discrete value for angle for smooth movement
		AIStackClear();
		Random random = new Random();
		for (int i = 0; i < random.Next(0, maxAngle); i++)
		{
			curAngle++;
			AIStackAddMove((UInt32)(target.GetLocation().X + wanderDistance * Math.Cos(curAngle*dangle)), (UInt32)(target.GetLocation().Y + wanderDistance * Math.Cos(curAngle*dangle)), true);

			//wait to finish one rotation phase - finish walking (dunno how)
		}
		// removing overflow problem
		curAngle %= 360;
		//waiting till next rotation sequence
		AIStackAddWait((UInt32)random.Next(4000, 10000));
		AIStackAddRepeat();
	}

Actually want a separate interface for AI and want u to make something like NPC.SetAI(AI_travelling_to_dunby). I hope u understand what I mean.

[Englishnessness]

I don't know about a character simulator, but single player Mabinogi is my life's dream.

[jas161]

Originally Posted by Jemdo

So we could code custom AI now? (if u aren't into it right now)

// Code for anticlockwise circling around a target at wanderDistance range with initial direction initAngle (0 for x axis 90 for y axis)
	int maxAngle = 720;
	int curAngle = 0;
	public void CircleAround(MabiCreature target, int initAngle)
	{
		// dunno exists it or not but used target.GetLocation() to determine player position
		curAngle = initAngle;
		double dangle = Math.PI / 360; // discrete value for angle for smooth movement
		AIStackClear();
		Random random = new Random();
		for (int i = 0; i < random.Next(0, maxAngle); i++)
		{
			curAngle++;
			AIStackAddMove((UInt32)(target.GetLocation().X + wanderDistance * Math.Cos(curAngle*dangle)), (UInt32)(target.GetLocation().Y + wanderDistance * Math.Cos(curAngle*dangle)), true);

			//wait to finish one rotation phase - finish walking (dunno how)
		}
		// removing overflow problem
		curAngle %= 360;
		//waiting till next rotation sequence
		AIStackAddWait((UInt32)random.Next(4000, 10000));
		AIStackAddRepeat();
	}

Actually want a separate interface for AI and want u to make something like NPC.SetAI(AI_travelling_to_dunby). I hope u understand what I mean.

If you mean customising pet AI that has always been available.

[adam_j]

Originally Posted by jas161

If you mean customising pet AI that has always been available.

As I understood it (from the IRC), he means custom AI for NPCs/monsters, outside of normal, basic AI for their basic group, so that each individual monster could have a different action in it's own script.

Also, when pets were first released in NA, Pet AI wasn't available. Basic AIs were all we had.
That is when modding the features.xml became common place, and probably why it's now compiled.

[jas161]

Originally Posted by adam_j

As I understood it (from the IRC), he means custom AI for NPCs/monsters, outside of normal, basic AI for their basic group, so that each individual monster could have a different action in it's own script.

Also, when pets were first released in NA, Pet AI wasn't available. Basic AIs were all we had.
That is when modding the features.xml became common place, and probably why it's now compiled.

Ah okay thanks for clearing that one up for me

@Kev any ideas as to what sort of extra features you'll be adding to the server yet?

(Besides gold and exp and possibly AP boost)

[Heavenlyhero]

Turtle events fo sho.