All About Programmers

[iliveoncaffiene]

I've made this topic to discuss people's opinions and stereotypes about programmers as a whole (opinions about individuals aren't helpful).

I've always wondered what people thought about programmers and what they expect us to act like.
This is a very, very 'out-there' thread but I think it sorta sticks to the forum topic

Here are a few questions that come to mind when I think about programmers:

• Do you think of everyday problems in terms of programing?
• Are all programmers irritable and mean?
• Do you ever share your source code?

And my answers to those questions:

• No. But I do figure out anything I don't understand by process of elimination and looking at all possibilities, just like programming.
• Unfortunately, a good portion of them are like this. It comes from being constantly bugged by people who don't know an if-then from a duck (Yes, I said duck).
• Sometimes, if there was minimal effort in making it, we will share our source code. However, unless a programmer is a sourceforge junkie, he/she wouldn't share the code if it required a lot of time and effort.

End rant.
Now, post your comments or delete this topic if it's really as pointless as I think it is.

[joek]

After a moments introspection I came to the conclusion that programming has a lot of parallels to cooking.
Anyone can boil an egg but to create a truly masterful culinary experience takes a lot of time, experience and experimentation.
I also see very similar attitudes and behavior patterns between the two trades.

1) I think everyone approaches life's little conundrums from the angles that their most comfortable with, programmers aren't machines we do have emotions, so since nothing in life is back and white I guess we work the same as everyone else, just a little more organized perhaps.

2) Actually most of us start of real nice and helpful, but life soon gives us an education on that point and so we develop a hard veneer just to sort out the wheat from the chaff, but really were still soft and squishy inside

3) I share code snippets and concepts, but usually don't give out the whole recipe, I think its more satisfying for all involved when the cook finds his own way to create the dish.

[`xEnt]

1. I do, or at least in smarter ways than i did before i started programming.

2. There are the elitists which are usually advanced at programming or guru's of some sort which like to flame newcomers. My self id consider myself intermediate to advanced programmer, and i hate so say but i dislike noobs who expect everything done for them. Over my years I've talked to so many stupid people, and now i am arrogant and ignore people who don't know anything about programming (only if this is in a programming/cheating community)

3. If its something simple, yeah sure they can have it open src, but if it takes some time to do, I'm more of a person who likes to sell what i make.

[MushyPeas]

1. No I solve programming problems just like I've always solved RL problems, with logic, but I've always done that, even before I ever coded anything.

2. No But you do need to know what to ask them and show them what you have already tried, don't ask a programmer to do your work for you but show some respect for what they're good at and they are very likely to help.

3. Yes But a lot of times I prefer to give people hints instead so they actually learn something from the experience.


A question from me: when do you consider a person an actual programmer?
Because to me it seems there are loads of people here that incorrectly consider themselves to be programmers.

[ChingChong23]

You know your a programmer when you realize you don't need help to do things anymore.

[MushyPeas]

Originally Posted by ChingChong23

You know your a programmer when you realize you don't need help to do things anymore.

Then there are very few to none on this planet I bet, there are always new things to learn and to learn new things you always need some sort of help, albeit a book, google or another person.

[joek]

LOL here's my view of the nine levels of a programmers evolution:-

level 1...I can code "hello world" in some language.
level 2...I get some of the $hit but its all too hard.
level 3...I can steal someone else's code and pass it off as my own.
level 4...I can rewrite/manipulate someone else's code a little.
level 5...I can understand someone else's code.
level 6...I can actually improve on someone else's code.
level 7...Why do I need someone else's code at all.
level 8...Training wheels are off and your building your own projects.
level 9...Now your doing things others can't do(stylish and creative factor)

[MushyPeas]

Originally Posted by joek

LOL here's my view of the nine levels of a programmers evolution:-

level 1...I can code "hello world" in some language.
level 2...I get some of the $hit but its all too hard.
level 3...I can steal someone else's code and pass it off as my own.
level 4...I can rewrite/manipulate someone else's code a little.
level 5...I can understand someone else's code.
level 6...I can actually improve on someone else's code.
level 7...Why do I need someone else's code at all.
level 8...Training wheels are off and your building your own projects.
level 9...Now your doing things others can't do.

I'm atleast lvl 8 then xD I'm pretty sure there is always more than one person that can code something though so lvl 9 is a bit unclear to me.

[joek]

okay lets paraphrase 9.
level 9...Your doing things more distinctly than the rest(ie you develop your own style)

[leavemealone]

I think the description for Level 9 should be rephrazed a little as many people know how to create simple applications of which features others can't.

[iliveoncaffiene]

I create something others can't because of the limited knowledge, but I would not consider my proxy as an example of level 9.
Would level 9 be an example of "finding your niche?" As in, creating new things that expand upon what you do most in programming.

@ChingChong: you read my mind. I get extremely irritated by people who can't solve their own problems because they refuse to understand WHY the problem occurred in the first place.

I guess programmers learn to teach themselves (what a paradox)

[ChingChong23]

Well once you learn a language, learn 80%+ of it's syntax and how it all works, all it really is is researching libraries and using them to make what you need. You cant expect to think your a programmer if someone gives you a class, and you dont know how to use methods from it.

a Programmer would be, lets take memory editing for example (a popular choice on these forums) If Person X thinks to him self, hmm id like to make a seperate program to show my players health on this application. If he didnt know how to do this he would google memory library or something, lets take .Net for example. He would find the documentation on WriteProcessMemory, if he could read the documentation and create his project sucessfully, he is a programmer. Googling help/research on specific classes you need does not make you any less of a programmer, not everyone can remember every the classnames and methods of every library in their language.

But someone who has trouble creating a project after they have even read the documentation on their target, for example they didnt know where abouts to place the code on there project, this is not a programmer.

Im going to consider a programmer someone who knows what 70%+ of all of the keywords in their language are and what they do, and would never get a syntax error, and if they did by accident they would know how to fix it straight away without any googling.

But everyone has their own opinion.

[(GAME)Master]

if
level 1 = I can code "hello world" in some language.
else
level 2 = I get some of the $hit but its all too hard.
else
level 3 = I can steal someone else's code and pass it off as my own.
else
level 4 = I can rewrite/manipulate someone else's code a little.
else
level 5 = I can understand someone else's code.
else
level 6 = I can actually improve on someone else's code.
else
level 7 = Why do I need someone else's code at all.
else
level 8 = Training wheels are off and your building your own projects.
else
level 9 = Now your doing things others can't do(stylish and creative factor)
end if

[IAmHawtness]

Originally Posted by (GAME)Master

if
level 1 = I can code "hello world" in some language.
else
level 2 = I get some of the $hit but its all too hard.
else
level 3 = I can steal someone else's code and pass it off as my own.
else
level 4 = I can rewrite/manipulate someone else's code a little.
else
level 5 = I can understand someone else's code.
else
level 6 = I can actually improve on someone else's code.
else
level 7 = Why do I need someone else's code at all.
else
level 8 = Training wheels are off and your building your own projects.
else
level 9 = Now your doing things others can't do(stylish and creative factor)
end if

You somehow make me sick.

[MushyPeas]

Originally Posted by IAmHawtness

You somehow make me sick.

Any idea why?