All About Programmers

evanxxxm · 10/15/2008, 19:48

MushyPeas@
all i can say is yes, that consider as programmer
(as also pointed out by unknownone, programming/programmer can be broad, and classify into many columns, levels, standards..etc)
well as, elementary kid goes to school, u cant deny him as a student just because he is learning ABC and 1+1. because he falls under meaning of student = a person to gain knowledge
well as, a cleaning lady getting minimum wages doing simple jobs like wiping the floor is indeed a worker. u cant deny her as a worker just because u are so mightily business man that serves hundreds of people per day and make millions

if u classify yourself is a some-what programmer, maybe this will be easier to understand
consider the following:

Code:

if (var==1 or var==2 or var==3 .....or var==1000)
cout<<"The number is included in the list";
else
cout<<"The number is not existed in the list";

if var =1, are u going to deny its position in the list just because its too small value?
maybe human will, but in programmings, if the function stated its definition, and if the variable falls under that definitions, then yes, it is absolutely included in the list
i also understand people like abusing titles to mislead people, for example, i went to a supermarket in China, all the workers there are either manager or supervisor...for example, people declare themselves as college graduates, when they sleep and cheat through the whole time...anyways, yea, but according to the definitions, it falls under the group

btw, in order for a script to work, it must be translated to a low level language like, machine code
ur cpu does not understand what is MsgBox, or SendRawKey string
so... isnt that a big plus advantage for AHKcompile -> MC when run EXE -> decompileAHK?
(thats why the comments in EXE -> AHKscript will disappear, because the comments never translated to C++/MC)

there are also softwares that can convert C++, vb..etc back to script form, comments also disappeared
same concept, just that its build-in decompile function in AHK
thats why i mention earlier about next generation language, it will come, maybe not AHK/autoIt, but the concept will be same, higher level language - more user friendly and simplier (silverlight by microsoft coming up, or u never know what google will come out with)

ChingChong23 · 10/15/2008, 22:27

evanxxxm if you care about visuals that much, you should use visual c++ express. GUI creator is simple to use, and you'd be using c++.

Looking at the syntax of AHK, i dislike it. First thing i think, is like C++ converted to a vb-like syntax

evanxxxm · 10/16/2008, 01:13

ChingChong23@
of course i tried it (AHK has something similar too)
both of them looks fancy but never gets to exactly what u want
thats why i type codes myself

for example, the GUI creator can never produce something like my ELSEpath
even has the frame, then afterwards, u need to go back declare like 20+ variables
then move around coordinates, then edit around the drop down bar list, then hook some INI loaded values in the GUI, then declare some g-label subfunctions when a user do certain selections/clicks...etc
so basically, its a O-M-G work, better to just scratch the frame yourself as it goes

another reason not using those creators is, it gets the graphics settings done, but totally not organized, it just randomly put codes together in order to look like what u have produce, it is extremely hard for a programmer to modify the "above things" that i mention

an example will be:
if i declare myself, it will be something like: (AHKcode, yes its simple like that, nothing more)

Code:

GUI, tab1
GUI, text, x10 y10, blah blah blah
GUI, combobox, x10 y30, xyz
GUI, tab2
GUI, dropdownlist, x10 y10, a|b|c|d
GUI, show

vs. those so-call creator: (possible scenario)

Code:

GUI, tab2, dropdownlist, a|b|c|d
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, x+3
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, x+7
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, y+10
GUI, tab1, combobox, xyz
GUI, controlmove, combobox, x+10
GUI, text, x10, blah blaha
GUI, controledit, text, blah blah blah
GUI, controlmove, combobox, y+30
GUI, controlmove, text, y+10
GUI, show

just randomly organized, why? because no programmers are perfect, they will edit things that produce before, so as an result, those so-call creator will have a hard time following, and create a mess (but it got the graphic done)

if u have no idea what i am talking about
think of those macro programs, it records ur mouse position and keys, clicks and waits..etc (perfectly)
however, have u ever look at those codes that the macro generate?
u will be O-M-G again, i just click few buttons and login my gmail and it gives me hundreds of lines (very hard to modify too)
vs. if u write code urself, probably u can finish that within 10-20 lines plus it can be easily edit afterwards

ChingChong23 · 10/16/2008, 03:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanxxxm
ChingChong23@
of course i tried it (AHK has something similar too)
both of them looks fancy but never gets to exactly what u want
thats why i type codes myself

for example, the GUI creator can never produce something like my ELSEpath
even has the frame, then afterwards, u need to go back declare like 20+ variables
then move around coordinates, then edit around the drop down bar list, then hook some INI loaded values in the GUI, then declare some g-label subfunctions when a user do certain selections/clicks...etc
so basically, its a O-M-G work, better to just scratch the frame yourself as it goes

another reason not using those creators is, it gets the graphics settings done, but totally not organized, it just randomly put codes together in order to look like what u have produce, it is extremely hard for a programmer to modify the "above things" that i mention

an example will be:
if i declare myself, it will be something like: (AHKcode, yes its simple like that, nothing more)
Code:
GUI, tab1
GUI, text, x10 y10, blah blah blah
GUI, combobox, x10 y30, xyz
GUI, tab2
GUI, dropdownlist, x10 y10, a|b|c|d
GUI, show
vs. those so-call creator: (possible scenario)
Code:
GUI, tab2, dropdownlist, a|b|c|d
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, x+3
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, x+7
GUI, controlmove, dropdownlist, y+10
GUI, tab1, combobox, xyz
GUI, controlmove, combobox, x+10
GUI, text, x10, blah blaha
GUI, controledit, text, blah blah blah
GUI, controlmove, combobox, y+30
GUI, controlmove, text, y+10
GUI, show
just randomly organized, why? because no programmers are perfect, they will edit things that produce before, so as an result, those so-call creator will have a hard time following, and create a mess (but it got the graphic done)

if u have no idea what i am talking about
think of those macro programs, it records ur mouse position and keys, clicks and waits..etc (perfectly)
however, have u ever look at those codes that the macro generate?
u will be O-M-G again, i just click few buttons and login my gmail and it gives me hundreds of lines (very hard to modify too)
vs. if u write code urself, probably u can finish that within 10-20 lines plus it can be easily edit afterwards

I understand what your talking about. Like i could use GUI designers in a few of my languages, but i only use a designer to align the controls etc. I manually add the action/mouse listeners. But alignment saves a lot of time rather than doing it in code, compiling and running, editing and making the coords perfect.

flowerpot! · 10/16/2008, 03:58

Programming is merely an implementation detail.. it takes skill to implement a complex program properly, but really not that much skill.

Where real talent is needed is in coming up with better algorithms - faster and more efficient ways to solve the problem at hand. After all a program is just a list of instructions (no different from a script). It's coming up with the best set of instructions to solve a problem where logic and problem solving comes into play. Once you know the algorithm you want to implement, the language you use to implement it is merely a detail making the actual programming part merely a detail too.

If you think you're a good programmer, check out the Algorithm contests at TopCoder.com. Not sure if they still payout $$ but I made a couple k from them back when I was in University (not to mention free trips around the world for ACM contests:

).

Anyways, when it comes to writing a cheat or hack for a game.. sub-optimal algorithms generally suffice and so there's not really a lot of programming skill involved. Reverse engineering skill is really what is needed - knowing how a program works helps reverse it, but it's pretty implementation specific so I find it quite tedious. It's the kind of thing where anyone with enough time and motivation could figure it out eventually, and it's just about approaching it the right way so you don't have to spend as much time on the problem - opportunity cost, etc. There also seems to be more of a luck factor in it.. someone could get the right address by pure luck and get the hack working faster whereas coming up with a faster algorithm is typically not something that happens by chance.

Korvacs · 10/22/2008, 10:21

Those 9 levels of programming dont really work, because i have devoloped my own style as have thousands of other programmers, but that doesnt mean that we are at the same level as each other :P