[Discussion] Operating Systems

[-Fáng-]

#request delete

[Korvacs]

Actually your wrong,

Windows Xp is completely different when compared to Vista and Windows 7, the entire boot sector is different aswell as various Kernel calls, so if the server was built on Windows Xp its entirely possible that it wont work in Windows 7. That is why Windows 7 and Vista both come with a Windows Xp compatability mode, however this merely emulates Windows Xp calls and is by no means perfect, some software simply will not run on Windows 7 if it was designed for Xp.

So i just want to clarify there are MASSIVE differences between Xp, Vista and 7. I work in IT so trust me i know, i encounter issues like this daily.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

Actually your wrong,

Windows Xp is completely different when compared to Vista and Windows 7, the entire boot sector is different aswell as various Kernel calls, so if the server was built on Windows Xp its entirely possible that it wont work in Windows 7. That is why Windows 7 and Vista both come with a Windows Xp compatability mode, however this merely emulates Windows Xp calls and is by no means perfect, some software simply will not run on Windows 7 if it was designed for Xp.

So i just want to clarify there are MASSIVE differences between Xp, Vista and 7. I work in IT so trust me i know, i encounter issues like this daily.

Well yes, there are huge differences in the operating systems, I'm comparing it to coding these servers though. None of the servers have compatibility issues with the OSs, thus there is no reason for people to say it's a problem with Windows Vista or Windows 7.

Originally Posted by Phineus

I love when Fang gets proved wrong.

Who are you?

[Korvacs]

Originally Posted by -Fáng-

Well yes, there are huge differences in the operating systems, I'm comparing it to coding these servers though. None of the servers have compatibility issues with the OSs, thus there is no reason for people to say it's a problem with Windows Vista or Windows 7.

Again, if a source uses direct calls to the kernel and that has changed the source wont work at all, Windows Vista and Windows 7 use a revised Kernel not the Windows Xp Kernel, so its entirely possible that it wont work at the very least without rebuilding, and even then if its a direct call it may need modifying.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

Again, if a source uses direct calls to the kernel and that has changed the source wont work at all, Windows Vista and Windows 7 use a revised Kernel not the Windows Xp Kernel, so its entirely possible that it wont work at the very least without rebuilding, and even then if its a direct call it may need modifying.

I know, you stated that, but I'm saying in all of these sources that have been released for the noobs to get stuck on and claim it's a problem with their OS: it's not the Operating System's fault because the sources have no compatibility issues. It's not that much of a debate, it's just annoying when noobs blame their errors on their operating system which took years to develop and millions of dollars of investments instead of blaming themselves.

[CptSky]

Little example I code on WinXP. I use the psapi.dll, but after Win Server 2003? The function I use or the complete DLL, I don't remember, is in the Kernel32.dll Oups, there is a problem... You call something that doesn't exist.

You can't say XP works like Vista. If you want to say that the OS works like an other OS. Check the kernel version. You will have more chance to find some things that are similar...

Win2K, WinXP, Win Server 2003 -> Windows NT 5.X
Vista, Win Server 2008, Seven -> Windows NT 6.X

[_tao4229_]

Any server on here will only use the .NET framework, and even so they won't use any kernel calls (at least the ones that have been changed since XP->Vista->7). Any interop functions they've called are almost guaranteed to be standard CRT functions which haven't changed in a very long time. Else they're standard win32 API / WSA functions which also havent changed since XP (at least said functions, some of the underlying code may be different).

edit: tl;dr version:
possible, but doubtful anyone here would post a source with said problems because it's outside of their abilities to use said functions.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by CptSky

Little example I code on WinXP. I use the psapi.dll, but after Win Server 2003? The function I use or the complete DLL, I don't remember, is in the Kernel32.dll Oups, there is a problem... You call something that doesn't exist.

You can't say XP works like Vista. If you want to say that the OS works like an other OS. Check the kernel version. You will have more chance to find some things that are similar...

Win2K, WinXP, Win Server 2003 -> Windows NT 5.X
Vista, Win Server 2008, Seven -> Windows NT 6.X

Thank you! That is a good example. However, to the noobs that are just copying and pasting into these released sources, they shouldn't be blaming the OS on their errors, agreed?

@Everyone, I'm not saying that they're not different in coding huge projects, I'm saying that they're not different when downloading these released sources.

[CptSky]

Originally Posted by -Fáng-

Thank you! That is a good example. However, to the noobs that are just copying and pasting into these released sources, they shouldn't be blaming the OS on their errors, agreed?

If you don't use the Windows API, the OS have nothing to do with a code. The .net Framework will interpret the code for the OS.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by CptSky

If you don't use the Windows API, the OS have nothing to do with a code. The .net Framework will interpret the code for the OS.

Yes! Exactly!
That's why it annoys me when noobs blame their stupidity on their operating system! The only problem with Windows 7 i've come across is when you leave it on for a while while you're away and then come back and it's frozen. Has anyone else came across that?

[Korvacs]

Originally Posted by -Fáng-

Yes! Exactly!
That's why it annoys me when noobs blame their stupidity on their operating system! The only problem with Windows 7 i've come across is when you leave it on for a while while you're away and then come back and it's frozen. Has anyone else came across that?

Actually it can still be an issue with the OS, many people install lightweight versions of OS's so that could have an effect with missing components, OS could be damaged or corrupt, the early sources to implement DH key exchange and the blowfish encryption methods were OS dependant due to the way it was written. So while there might not be any such issues nowadays you cannot rule out the possibility of it happening.

So please dont go around calling people stupid because they cant get it working on their system, due to the massive combination of OS's and hardware its a miracle there arnt more issues with computers than there actually are.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

Actually it can still be an issue with the OS, many people install lightweight versions of OS's so that could have an effect with missing components, OS could be damaged or corrupt, the early sources to implement DH key exchange and the blowfish encryption methods were OS dependant due to the way it was written. So while there might not be any such issues nowadays you cannot rule out the possibility of it happening.

So please dont go around calling people stupid because they cant get it working on their system, due to the massive combination of OS's and hardware its a miracle there arnt more issues with computers than there actually are.

If they installed a lightweight version of an Operating System then they shouldn't be coding at all though. Those systems are for computers that can barely run themselves and for people that only need it for basic functions. Right? If the OS is corrupted then that's their fault for doing something to it too. You're right that I can't rule out the possibility of it happening, but most of the time (if not 100% of the time on this forum), it's not the operating system's problem.

[Korvacs]

Originally Posted by -Fáng-

If they installed a lightweight version of an Operating System then they shouldn't be coding at all though. Those systems are for computers that can barely run themselves and for people that only need it for basic functions. Right? If the OS is corrupted then that's their fault for doing something to it too. You're right that I can't rule out the possibility of it happening, but most of the time (if not 100% of the time on this forum), it's not the operating system's problem.

You cant just make assumptions when your debugging an issue, whats true for one person isnt neccasserily true for anouther, something you need to realise if you make any release. And no people install lightweight systems to get the best performance in some cases, or because they find the other functions un-neccassery, its just personal choice.

Also if the OS is corrupt it could be because the file-system has started to break down, this can happen just when the machine is used alot, malicious software(viruses, malware), or even from stupid things like power-cuts. So again you cant just blame users for it.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by Korvacs

You cant just make assumptions when your debugging an issue, whats true for one person isnt neccasserily true for anouther, something you need to realise if you make any release. And no people install lightweight systems to get the best performance in some cases, or because they find the other functions un-neccassery, its just personal choice.

Also if the OS is corrupt it could be because the file-system has started to break down, this can happen just when the machine is used alot, malicious software(viruses, malware), or even from stupid things like power-cuts. So again you cant just blame users for it.

Ok. Well that is all correct, but most of the time it is just a noob blaming his/her operating system on their errors.

[-Fáng-]

Originally Posted by ~Yuki~

dude there is really no reason for such a topic. PPL who know about that stuff dont need that thread. PPL Who say the OS is the "ERROR" or "PROBLEM" wont read something like that couse they search for the latest TQ Binary atm.

#request delete.
There are way too many flamers flaming at this.