War in Ukraine

[! Zaptine]

Hey there my fellow EPVPers I am opening this thread to start a discussion about the current situation in Ukraine with Russia

Personally I feel sad/stressed that we are facing another huge war in Europe

I feel like we ( EU & Nato) have helped create this issue yet as soon as there are being shots fired there's no real help to be seen ...

They keep talking about sanctions but a quick google search will show that Russia's trade volume is merely 6% of there GDP. ( source https://www.bstdb.org/Overview_of_th...tor_RUSSIA.pdf )

So I am wondering are those "sanctions" even going to have the effect they are supposed to have ?

Not to mention that only around 17% of Russian banking assets are in Rubles ( so a falling ruble wont hurt to much either )


Any ways I am wondering what you guys think about this entire situation


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[ApolloSky2.5]

no to war, civilians should no longer die.

[cypher]

The off-topic section would be more appropriate for such a thread. We've already a . English speakers are also welcome to participate there.

Originally Posted by Zaptine

So I am wondering are those "sanctions" even going to have the effect they are supposed to have ?

In general, sanctions can put pressure on regimes by worsening the lives of the general population. The idea is to affect the lives of average citizens to turn them against their government to correct the political course of an authoritarian regime. But the sad truth is, that history indicates, that such policies can even strengthen the ties between the government and its citizens. The main reason is, that the "foreign threat" to the government is perceived as a threat to every citizen of this government - people of countries with little freedoms identify themselves with their government. That means, that the pressure from outside will only strengthen the spirit of the Russians. In the long run, the sanctions will ensure that Russia will find its own solutions to the problems caused by the sanctions. A very similar example is Turkey, where sanctions on military equipment by NATO have sparked innovation in military technologies. Another point is, that sanctions are like double-edged swords: international markets are curtailed by sanctions of any kind. The only plus is, that European governments will be able to say: "Look, we did something against the Russian threat!" Don't get me wrong, doing nothing would be much worse.

[m2bober]

Someone who is willing to attack and invade a country does not care about there citizens/civilians at all, so why should sanctions stop him from invading the country when the sanctions only affect its citizens.

btw some assume that putin is by far the richest person on the planet, so why should he care about some stock market or import sanctions.

[! Zaptine]

Originally Posted by Cyphernomic

In general, sanctions can put pressure on regimes by worsening the lives of the general population. The idea is to affect the lives of average citizens to turn them against their government to correct the political course of an authoritarian regime. But the sad truth is, that history indicates, that such policies can even strengthen the ties between the government and its citizens. The main reason is, that the "foreign threat" to the government is perceived as a threat to every citizen of this government - people of countries with little freedoms identify themselves with their government. That means, that the pressure from outside will only strengthen the spirit of the Russians. In the long run, the sanctions will ensure that Russia will find its own solutions to the problems caused by the sanctions. A very similar example is Turkey, where sanctions on military equipment by NATO have sparked innovation in military technologies. Another point is, that sanctions are like double-edged swords: international markets are curtailed by sanctions of any kind. The only plus is, that European governments will be able to say: "Look, we did something against the Russian threat!" Don't get me wrong, doing nothing would be much worse.

Well said. The ruble seems to take hard hits from the sanctions personally did not expect them to have this kind of affect in this short time frame.

Already its being used on Russian state media to create more anger on the West

Originally Posted by m2bober

Someone who is willing to attack and invade a country does not care about there citizens/civilians at all, so why should sanctions stop him from invading the country when the sanctions only affect its citizens.

btw some assume that Putin is by far the richest person on the planet, so why should he care about some stock market or import sanctions.

His actions clearly say he does not care, I am wondering though how his rich oligarch and other trustees going to like it on the long term.

Hoping for an coup some how

[Ghost Informatics]

I was in Ukraine a city called Kharkiv, we evacuated Ukraine on 27 Feb.

It was a nightmare on the borders, we arrived to Germany we got treated so bad for a month, homeless everyday in a worse refugee camp until a family hosted us.

We got humiliated many times, especially by the police when they stopped us at the train station in Dresden.

I want to swear now and say bad things about NATO countries but they don't deserve to get a violation point for them. NATO countries are a joke.

[zerogott]

Originally Posted by Ghost Informatics

I was in Ukraine a city called Kharkiv, we evacuated Ukraine on 27 Feb.

It was a nightmare on the borders, we arrived to Germany we got treated so bad for a month, homeless everyday in a worse refugee camp until a family hosted us.

We got humiliated many times, especially by the police when they stopped us at the train station in Dresden.

I want to swear now and say bad things about NATO countries but they don't deserve to get a violation point for them. NATO countries are a joke.

If you think NATO countries are a joke, why did you not evacuate to Russia instead?

[Ghost Informatics]

Originally Posted by zerogott

If you think NATO countries are a joke, why did you not evacuate to Russia instead?

Yeah I go to the country who invaded us, how smart you are.

[Deathmist]

Originally Posted by cypher

The off-topic section would be more appropriate for such a thread. We've already a . English speakers are also welcome to participate there.



In general, sanctions can put pressure on regimes by worsening the lives of the general population. The idea is to affect the lives of average citizens to turn them against their government to correct the political course of an authoritarian regime. But the sad truth is, that history indicates, that such policies can even strengthen the ties between the government and its citizens. The main reason is, that the "foreign threat" to the government is perceived as a threat to every citizen of this government - people of countries with little freedoms identify themselves with their government. That means, that the pressure from outside will only strengthen the spirit of the Russians. In the long run, the sanctions will ensure that Russia will find its own solutions to the problems caused by the sanctions. A very similar example is Turkey, where sanctions on military equipment by NATO have sparked innovation in military technologies. Another point is, that sanctions are like double-edged swords: international markets are curtailed by sanctions of any kind. The only plus is, that European governments will be able to say: "Look, we did something against the Russian threat!" Don't get me wrong, doing nothing would be much worse.

Tbh the sanctions have had a bigger effect on us(Europe) than on Russia. Just look at the oil and gas prices. Russia has already started trade with India and it will not take much time to completely reshape their economy, the real ones who are going to be screwed is us, europe.

Originally Posted by Ghost Informatics

I was in Ukraine a city called Kharkiv, we evacuated Ukraine on 27 Feb.

It was a nightmare on the borders, we arrived to Germany we got treated so bad for a month, homeless everyday in a worse refugee camp until a family hosted us.

We got humiliated many times, especially by the police when they stopped us at the train station in Dresden.

I want to swear now and say bad things about NATO countries but they don't deserve to get a violation point for them. NATO countries are a joke.

This is nothing. Atleast you get familys hosting you and solidarity. Have you ever asked yourself what Syrian refugees felt like? They literally were hunted by everyone, while having to escape through sea, then through borders, and lastly they are isolated once they do find refugee in a country. They were beaten, locked up in prison, even killed, and I am talking about kids and women too. You're blessed, count your blessings, it could have been much worse for you. No need to flame other countries, in which you are in by the way.

[Ghost Informatics]

Originally Posted by Deathmist

Tbh the sanctions have had a bigger effect on us(Europe) than on Russia. Just look at the oil and gas prices. Russia has already started trade with India and it will not take much time to completely reshape their economy, the real ones who are going to be screwed is us, europe.



This is nothing. Atleast you get familys hosting you and solidarity. Have you ever asked yourself what Syrian refugees felt like? They literally were hunted by everyone, while having to escape through sea, then through borders, and lastly they are isolated once they do find refugee in a country. They were beaten, locked up in prison, even killed, and I am talking about kids and women too. You're blessed, count your blessings, it could have been much worse for you. No need to flame other countries, in which you are in by the way.

Do you think Ukraine has only Ukrainians?


I'm not Ukrainian, I'm from Iraq and I was a refugee in Ukraine.

me and many people like me who evacuated Iraq to Syria, we lived in Syria then the war started and we had to evacuate to Ukraine, Yes this is the third time I lose everything and start from scratch. You know nothing about what we went through and what we lost to get to this point, every human in the world deserve peace and safety no matter what his nationality is.

[__Void]

Whole situation in my opinion is a joke mainly because of France.
How people can choose with +/-50% by ProPutin and AntiPutin persons?
Also, president of France is a joke too, France is country in Europe which never do anything but want decide on everything. It was like that from 2nd world war. They always run first, never help anyone but first to talk and reprimand other country heads, example when president of France reprimand Joe Biden or Polish Prime Minister when he alone is not doing anything and calling Putin every day without any results.
This is a joke...