[QUESTION] Creating Gear From Scratch (not recoloring)

[buhtwhai]

Has anyone ever tried (or succeeded?) in creating gear from scratch? I know shaiya uses DDS files (which you edit to recolor) for visuals, ANI files for the animation, and some other files (not sure what they do) to create the gear, and i'm fairly sure it's possible to create gear from scratch but I haven't seen it done.

Any light that can be shed on this topic is greatly appreciated.

[Truth1010]

There are many topics and conversations on this topic already, but the quick easy answer is no.. it's not possible at this time to create new armor files. The "other files" you mentioned are 3DC (3D Character) files. They are what make up the shape of the actual armor.
We can currently "make" weapon designs, as they are 3DO (3D object) but that is about as far as we can currently go.
Maybe one day someone will manage to create a working 3DC file and import it into their game, but i wouldn't expect the info on that to be shared freely here.

[nubness]

We can edit 3DC files, but we have almost not use for that because we cannot edit the animation files.

[castor4878]

we will need to edit ani only to have *new* animations, says to have the toon moonwalking or dancing charleston.
to have a toon with 100% original gears but usual moves, we just have to create a 3D shape (the 3DC as yet indicated).

[buhtwhai]

Originally Posted by Truth1010

There are many topics and conversations on this topic already, but the quick easy answer is no.. it's not possible at this time to create new armor files. The "other files" you mentioned are 3DC (3D Character) files. They are what make up the shape of the actual armor.
We can currently "make" weapon designs, as they are 3DO (3D object) but that is about as far as we can currently go.
Maybe one day someone will manage to create a working 3DC file and import it into their game, but i wouldn't expect the info on that to be shared freely here.

So you can create weapons from scratch, but not gear?
Is there a tutorial on this somewhere?

Originally Posted by nubness

We can edit 3DC files, but we have almost not use for that because we cannot edit the animation files.

So you can create custom weapons but it's useless because it would have the old weapons animation? I don't understand >.<

Originally Posted by castor4878

we will need to edit ani only to have *new* animations, says to have the toon moonwalking or dancing charleston.
to have a toon with 100% original gears but usual moves, we just have to create a 3D shape (the 3DC as yet indicated).

So we can create custom weapons, it will just have the old animations?
What program would I use to create the model?

[Covea]

Originally Posted by buhtwhai

So you can create weapons from scratch, but not gear?
Is there a tutorial on this somewhere?

So you can create custom weapons but it's useless because it would have the old weapons animation? I don't understand >.<

So we can create custom weapons, it will just have the old animations?
What program would I use to create the model?

Well yes, it is possible to 'create' new weapons, e.g. transfering weapons from Aion to Shaiya. And as Truth1010 already mentioned, there are several threads about this.

[nubness]

You have misunderstood some things, so here's some explanation.

Weapons and shields are in 3DO format and they are not linked to any animation file.
Gears, mounts, mobs and so on are in 3DC format and most of the times they have an animation file linked to them. If the model and the animation don't match for whatever reason, you won't like what you're going to see in game. Examples of 3DC objects without an animation are helmets.

I hope this makes you understand it better.

[castor4878]

Or to paraphrase previous responses:

* weapons are *never* animated
(Aion has some extensible weapons with specific animations, nothing similar - close or not - exist on Shaiya, so a weapon is defined by a model that only contains 1 shape (some vertices, ie some 3D points forming triangles) provided by a 3DO file and a texture

it is (of course) possible to create "from scratch" a weapon but it requires some talent as a draftsman and knowledge of 3D representations of the created shape, afaik nobody did it yet, the sole not-shiaya-weapon shown there were Aion weapons converted (and scaled) with the 3D Converter tool (several threads exist and deal with the how-to).

* NPC & monsters are animated; you can use shStudio to look at the details of these models (NPC.mon & monsters.mon files), you will note a set of .ani file used to create the walk, attack, die, etc, animations.

* Characters are animated as well, the .ALT files under Character\<classes>\ list these animations.

NPC, monsters & characters use .3DC vertices instead of .3DO; the big difference between both is the presence of a (kind of) skeleton in the .3DC files; all vertices (all triangles) of the shape are connected to one (specific) point of the skeleton and the ani files move these skeleton points causing the whole shape to move.

Note that a model used to draw a character, a NPC or a monster is a set of .3DC files, some textures apply on the 3D shape and animations files used to move the whole thing.
The vertices themselves (the 3DC) are not linked to an animation, it is the ALT or MON file that associates the .3DC and the .ANI; but the 3DC and the ANI are built with the knownlegde of the same skeleton (number of points and relative positions).

you can (eventually) create a new .3DC (assuming skill & knowlegde on 3D shape drawing) but there is no tool to edit / create the connections to a skeleton. Using Aion models w/o understanding a single bit of them is there useless since the Aion's skeletons are fully different than Shaiya ones.
Still you can, not create from scratch, but modify an existing 3DC shape to create a new layout; bad point you will have to manage that manually (which of course is never done by person); but good point: shaiya is just another soft using 3D shapes, thus internal formats (the 3DC file format) are proprietary while the basic 3D rules of animations are of course identicals to those used elsewhere (because there is a single DirectX engine with the same logic for the whole earth).

At this point, I'm also afraid that no one wants to share further information; actually no I do not fear, it is certain that no one want to share any information otherwise 3D modeling tools would already exist, 3D is just very widespread and common in 2014.

[_Diavolino_]

*love that* Great explanation and in details xD

thank you Castor

[Truth1010]

very well written explanation there Castor. And yes, i also fear that any information on the "makeup" of the 3DC skeleton values will forever remain hidden. The only way we'll see that data in the near future would be from someone seeing it's money value and selling the information, as we have seen here countless times.
I believe someone did however actually manage to create a new weapon 3DO, but i think they had some problems inserting it into the game properly without errors. If i remember correctly, the weapon was designed using the UT editor (Unreal Engine) and then converted somehow (possibly the 3DoC tool).
I have however lost any skill or talent with UnrealED from my days on UT2003, but there are many forums dedicated to that info if anyone wanted to give it a try.

[sominus]

Creating an original new weapon is like the process of importing aion weapons.

You can create a weapon from scratch just using 3D Studio, add UV mapping and a texture to it. And then port it to shaiya 3DO with 3DOConverter. It works in-game.

I've made a test long time ago, created the word 'SHAIYA" and added a few shapes to it, to make it look like a sword. Something like '--<SHAIYA--'. Then adjusted the size and position using a shaiya original sword (was the Rune Blade I think), as a reference.

The item works ingame, the only problem I found back then, was the object (or the texture ??) being partially transparent. Coulnd't find the solution back then. (It was not an alpha channel problem).


Update:

I won't cover 'how to use 3D Studio', since that tool has an infinite amount of tutorials on the net.
Just a sugestion, make this tutorial:

It's way too old, but if you finish that, you will learn how to model anything. And one of the lessons, teachs you How to make a Sword



A a quick tuto for making a new weapon from scratch
Tools needed: 3D Studio, Photoshop with DDS tools, 3D Object Converter with shaiya module.

1) Start opening any shaiya weapon in 3DOC, and Save it as 3D Studio .3DS format.
2) Import that model into 3D Studio
(if you want you can add the texture, but it's not needed)

 Spoiler

3) Now, make a simple model, I've made just an extruded box (remember is just for testing).
Add Box-type UV Map to the model, and Uwrap UV to it, so you can apply a custom texture.
(save the texture as DDS in photoshop, so you can use it in the Game)

 Spoiler

4) Now use the weapon you imported from Shaiya, as a reference, and make your new model same size.
(in the pic below it doesn't show, but you have to position your model over the shaiya weapon, so they're both at the same position)

 Spoiler

5) Now delete the Shaiya weapon, select your model, and export it as .3DS format.
Then load it in 3D Object Converter and Save it as Shaiya Online .3DO format

 Spoiler

Now you just put the model and textures into the Client, edit the related .ITM, .SData, etc etc. Just as if you were adding new weapons from Oficial Shaiya.

And this is the model in-game:



Of course, this lame models are just for testing. You should later do a decent detailed weapon.