[OPEN SOURCE PROJECT] NosCore.io

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

Ok yes you right you’re the best and you’re the best developer ever. This is certainly why you never finish a project.

You should not try to attack people personally to defend your project, I can feel your anger in Beijing !
It will only show that you are lack of arguments and raging...

You should copying people and get your own way you know. Using the same type of harassment as people that wanna attack me (cc les pulco fragiles) does make your project a better one, you know that, right ?

@
I'm not raging at his work, he does what he want, it's his choice, not my, that's why I'm not working on the same project.
I just barely get the fact he wants that much money for an "opensource project" while he's not supposed to ask for people for a defined amount, he thought GitHub was the same marketing platform as Kickstarter ?
C'mon, a bit of sense.

Last thing, just read my posts, I justified what I said with facts, a real rager would only insult him personally or his work without even thinking about it.

[0Lucifer0]

Originally Posted by val77

You should not try to attack people personally to defend your project, I can feel your anger in Beijing !
It will only show that you are lack of arguments and raging...

You should copying people and get your own way you know. Using the same type of harassment as people that wanna attack me (cc les pulco fragiles) does make your project a better one, you know that, right ?

@
I'm not raging at his work, he does what he want, it's his choice, not my, that's why I'm not working on the same project.
I just barely get the fact he wants that much money for an "opensource project" while he's not supposed to ask for people for a defined amount, he thought GitHub was the same marketing platform as Kickstarter ?
C'mon, a bit of sense.

Last thing, just read my posts, I justified what I said with facts, a real rager would only insult him personally or his work without even thinking about it.

i don’t see any personal attack here. I say basicly fine think what you want. Also the fact you never finish a project is a fact. Where is NosSharp ? The only thing is that you think you re the only one to do good choices... moreover only the emulator is opensource this project is not.

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

i don’t see any personal attack here. I say basicly fine think what you want. Also the fact you never finish a project is a fact. Where is NosSharp ? The only thing is that you think you re the only one to do good choices... moreover only the emulator is opensource this project is not.

Fine, you should learn to use the words you understand, there is a significant difference between "never" and "some", I never said I succeed all my projects, that's apart of my trip, failing is a good way to learn.

By the way NosCore as an emulator is a project, that's it, even if NosCore.io is your bigger project, the emulator is a subproject of it. (So don't say the project is not opensource since we are talking about NosCore and not the SaaS platform you're trying to Kickstart)

Last thing, I never said that SaltyEmu is opensource, ChickenAPI is and will be forever, that's why I'm doing it, our emulator won't be until we decide the opposite because it's our choice.

Now do what you want, but please, don't be like that, trying to harass people, that's definitely not the right way you should defend your project.

[@LRevolution]

@ whatever you may say Blowa, @ is the reason emulated servers are what they are today; he has done an immense service to this community, service which will never ever be repaid.
He doesnt deserve the **** you're putting on him, especially when you yourself used his work.

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by @LRevolution

@ whatever you may say Blowa, @ is the reason emulated servers are what they are today; he has done an immense service to this community, service which will never ever be repaid.
He doesnt deserve the shit you're putting on him, especially when you yourself used his work.

Read things before bullshitting 😁, I didn't trashtalk him personally but his Kickstarter like announcement because it's not related to what it's supposed to be.

His full project cost probably money, an opensource project like NosCore's emulator does not cost money, if he wants to put time in it, he's free to do so, but he needs to assume his choice, not requesting 100$ monthly to continue developing it, that's not how an open source project is supposed to work, you don't ask for people to pay you to develop it, you develop it and get rewarded if people wants to.

But you forgot that a lot people worked on OpenNos, not only Lucifer, ChuckTheRipper, Ciapa, MasterDomino, Uppermost, Elendan, Kraken, Syl and I'm probably forgetting a lot of other people.
So don't tell "it's because of Lucifer that the private server scene is like it is", be respectful to everyone that took his own time to contribute to that project.
Even if I say a lot of things about OpenNos conception flaws, it's the most advanced project in term of features and lifetime.

Now think what you want, I cleared it since you guys seems not to understand things correctly .

[@LRevolution]

Originally Posted by val77

Read things before bullshitting 😁, I didn't trashtalk him personally but his Kickstarter like announcement because it's not related to what it's supposed to be.

His full project cost probably money, an opensource project like NosCore's emulator does not cost money, if he wants to put time in it, he's free to do so, but he needs to assume his choice, not requesting 100$ monthly to continue developing it, that's not how an open source project is supposed to work, you don't ask for people to pay you to develop it, you develop it and get rewarded if people wants to.

But you forgot that a lot people worked on OpenNos, not only Lucifer, ChuckTheRipper, Ciapa, MasterDomino, Uppermost, Elendan, Kraken, Syl and I'm probably forgetting a lot of other people.
So don't tell "it's because of Lucifer that the private server scene is like it is", be respectful to everyone that took his own time to contribute to that project.
Even if I say a lot of things about OpenNos conception flaws, it's the most advanced project in term of features and lifetime.

Now think what you want, I cleared it since you guys seems not to understand things correctly .

So what if he needs money? What is there to assume? What is it "supposed to be"? Free? Well guess what, you don't have to pay anything to use NosCore.

I'll quote your exact words : "You don't ask for people to pay you to develop it, you develop it and get rewarded if people wants to." Blowa, 2018

Now let's see when @ asked for money : nowhere?
I can only see :
"We added a kofi on the github page for people wanting to give but not on a recurring way.[...]Development cost being a bit expensive we still need your donation.[...]Getting your donations is the only way we have to stay in dev."

Wow, I am so outraged he needs money to have something done. That's so selfish, I didn't know he was a guy like that.

Imagine if people had the same reaction when downloading Ubuntu and they ask if you want to donate. What? It's different? Well guess what :

"Ubuntu is a free and open source operating system and Linux distribution based on Debian."

I don't see any bullshit thrown at them for that, do I?
Are you gonna tell the developers behind Ubuntu their "kickstarter like announcement is not related to what it's supposed to be." ? I'm really looking forward to that.

Really Blowa, I am shocked to discover you were actually an ungrateful hypocrite!

 Spoiler

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

At least we will see a server with real devs
Good luck with your server, hope you will show everyone that a server with dev is way better than a leecher one.

[lorenx911]

I paid a lot of money for Blowa's source and design, including the website, never fixx the site, so unusable, file full of bugs, never fixx files, and project abandoned to itself. Moral, money lost.

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by @LRevolution

So what if he needs money? What is there to assume? What is it "supposed to be"? Free? Well guess what, you don't have to pay anything to use NosCore.

I'll quote your exact words : "You don't ask for people to pay you to develop it, you develop it and get rewarded if people wants to." Blowa, 2018

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

Development cost being a bit expensive we still need your donation. This is why we decided this.
If we reach and stay with more than 100$/month all the donators will get 3 time the value they gave in the NosCore shop(NosCore shop monaie will be usable on the NosCore server or on the noscoreio plateform to get your own NosCore pserver).

Originally Posted by @LRevolution

Now let's see when @ asked for money : nowhere?
I can only see :
"We added a kofi on the github page for people wanting to give but not on a recurring way.[...]Development cost being a bit expensive we still need your donation.[...]Getting your donations is the only way we have to stay in dev."

Wow, I am so outraged he needs money to have something done. That's so selfish, I didn't know he was a guy like that.

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

Getting your donations is the only way we have to stay in dev.

So, is it actually meant to threaten that if he does not get donations, he'll stop NosCore's Emulator development like he already said many times on NosCore's Discord ? (I'm serious, this is the sentence that triggered my interrogations since the beginning)
(I can tell that I could read that when I came to Lucifer to ask if he wanna go for a common API which he refused arguing that Pathfinding should been done in C and that ECS is made for C++ but not for C#)

Originally Posted by @LRevolution

Imagine if people had the same reaction when downloading Ubuntu and they ask if you want to donate. What? It's different? Well guess what :

"Ubuntu is a free and open source operating system and Linux distribution based on Debian."

I don't see any bullshit thrown at them for that, do I?
Are you gonna tell the developers behind Ubuntu their "kickstarter like announcement is not related to what it's supposed to be." ? I'm really looking forward to that.

Do not compare Canonical's product to NosCore, Canonical is a company that created a lot of services around their products, NosCore is, as the thread title says, [OPEN SOURCE PROJECT] NosCore.io
It's his choice to make NosCore's Emulator as OpenSource, now if he wants to develop a SaaS around it, he does what he wants, but don't mix costs


Think about this: OpenNos mainly stopped because developers didn’t got enough money when leechers were getting the whole money for doing nothing. Which result in an abandonned software where everyone is asking for small changes.

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

NosCore is free and is meant to stay like this but it will only depends on you.

How many times he already threatened (Discord and some other places to close source it because he had no financial helps ? (I need to repeat myself since you don't get what I mean)

Originally Posted by @LRevolution

Really Blowa, I am shocked to discover you were actually an ungrateful hypocrite!

I am shocked that you didn't know it earlier from your little french group

Think what you want, I defend the PoV that his SaaS's costs & NosCore's Emulator development are not meant to be in the same bucket. (If you still don't get me, Privat Repos, CD, paid Crash Reports services are mostly made for his SaaS)
That's how a lot of huge projects in the world works, you develop an opensource project freely and make a SaaS around it to get money. (Hey Kubernetes, Serverless, Containers, React, Vue...)

[0Lucifer0]

Getting your donations is the only way we have to stay in dev.

just mean if we get 0 donation and if i loose my money i won't continue.

reach and stay with more than 100$/month all the donators will get 3 time the value they gave in the NosCore shop"

is just here to precise what they can get from helping...

OpenNos mainly stopped because developers didn’t got enough money when leechers were getting the whole money for doing nothing.

the end is the important part... no one like when people get more money than you just for using your work... In this case if no one wan't to donate this the contributor team is the only person interested in this project. If no one else is interested i don't see the point in sharing it except openning door to leechers.

I came to Lucifer to ask if he wanna go for a common API which he refused arguing that Pathfinding should been done in C and that ECS is made for C++ but not for C#

It just meant we have different idea on what should be the api... I clearly don't want to have to use ecs from your api if i think this doesn't fit. I asked you if you wanted to share things like packets or pathfiding on your api because this would totally be sharable. You said no.

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

just mean if we get 0 donation and if i loose my money i won't continue.

That's why I mostly do my actual projects for learning purposes and I'm not finishing some

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

is just here to precise what they can get from helping...

So I misunderstood you on that point

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

the end is the important part... no one like when people get more money than you just for using your work...

Sure, that's why I decided to only share an API with ChickenAPI and not a drag & drop solution like you actually did on NosCore, because most of the interesting things in that type of project for leechers are in the drag & drop server solution.

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

In this case if no one wan't to donate this the contributor team is the only person interested in this project. If no one else is interested i don't see the point in sharing it except openning door to leechers.

You got the point, that's why we are not sharing most important things except to people that shows interest in it. (Example, Zanou, that helps us to develop SaltyEmu without being apart of our team, he's just doing it because it's really different and he learns new things like we do so)

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

It just meant we have different idea on what should be the api... I clearly don't want to have to use ecs from your api if i think this doesn't fit. I asked you if you wanted to share things like packets or pathfiding on your api because this would totally be sharable. You said no.

Actually, I splitted packet projects enough to be shared, for the pathfinding, it's mainly due to the fact that we've abstracted it so anyone could use the same pathfinding algorithm

But that's actually the first version of it, we didn't spend much time on the interface since we don't get any feedbacks from anyone and only do what we need when we need it.

Both ChickenAPI.Packets & ChickenAPI.Pathfinding (you got the idea in the name) will be given as "standalone" assemblies.

Btw, the ECS has been modified to fit more with Nostale's purposes and keep some runtime composition possibilities

[Ortator]

100$ for a Nos Emu thats not worked fine at the beginning? Sorry but if we look at OpenNos then we can see its not even finisihed at OpenNos got a lot of money (Donation..), maybe the Community will pay if you server are working maybe 80% like the official, OpenNos is just a farming simulator and do 20% of the normal server.

My opinion

[Blowa]

Originally Posted by Ortator

100$ for a Nos Emu thats not worked fine at the beginning? Sorry but if we look at OpenNos then we can see its not even finisihed at OpenNos got a lot of money (Donation..), maybe the Community will pay if you server are working maybe 80% like the official, OpenNos is just a farming simulator and do 20% of the normal server.

My opinion

To be honest, 100$ is really cheap for the amount of work that have been put in NosCore and that will probably be put in it. (If we compare to a developer hourly/daily cost).

That's why most of people (leechers especially) should be glad that there are still people like Lucifer that put his work freely on GitHub to get a drag & drop solution
We both know it but he decided to make all his emulator opensource while we decided to not let leechers access our work on SaltyEmu, that's probably more respectful or more utopian.

And OpenNos handles much more than 20% of official features, I would say around 60~80% at the last commit date compared to the same date's official's features. (I don't really remember what's missing but not as much as you say in term of features)

We have different sight on the way to manage a project (on many sides), that's why we don't work together, does not mean I don't respect his work and his ideas. (Unlike some ragers would say)

[0Lucifer0]

Originally Posted by Ortator

100$ for a Nos Emu thats not worked fine at the beginning? Sorry but if we look at OpenNos then we can see its not even finisihed at OpenNos got a lot of money (Donation..), maybe the Community will pay if you server are working maybe 80% like the official, OpenNos is just a farming simulator and do 20% of the normal server.

My opinion

opennos haven’t got a lot of donation... or you confuse with the server opennos which is not opennos... even with a 100% working emulator the community won’t pay anything if it’s opensource.
Also opennos handle much more than 20% of the normal server... the only thing missing is the 4th class, the quest and the rainbow battle. The issue with opennos is not the features clearly it’s the design itself. It’s highly unmaintainable and not tested (oposite to NosCore). 100$ is not that much when you know how much you will get from a server when noscore will reach opennos feature amount... also I worked on NosCore 12hours today and I’m quite sure to work more than 100 hours a month which mean 1$/h for a software engineer trust me this is cheap... to conclude I’m not asking 100$ i don’t care about the amount I’m just saying that if this point is reached givers will get 3 time the value in noscoreio when it will be launched.

[Ortator]

Originally Posted by 0Lucifer0

opennos haven’t got a lot of donation... or you confuse with the server opennos which is not opennos... even with a 100% working emulator the community won’t pay anything if it’s opensource.
Also opennos handle much more than 20% of the normal server... the only thing missing is the 4th class, the quest and the rainbow battle. The issue with opennos is not the features clearly it’s the design itself. It’s highly unmaintainable and not tested (oposite to NosCore). 100$ is not that much when you know how much you will get from a server when noscore will reach opennos feature amount... also I worked on NosCore 12hours today and I’m quite sure to work more than 100 hours a month which mean 1$/h for a software engineer trust me this is cheap... to conclude I’m not asking 100$ i don’t care about the amount I’m just saying that if this point is reached givers will get 3 time the value in noscoreio when it will be launched.

Maybe finish your work first then you can receive the money that you want, but in my opinion you will get no 100$ per Mounth for a unfinish work, i know to write a Nostale Emulator needs lot of time but not for 100$ per Mounth for a unfinished project thats the same like OpenNos at the beginning (Just a farming simulator), maybe its work better (performance..) but its still the same (My opinion).

[0Lucifer0]

Originally Posted by Ortator

Maybe finish your work first then you can receive the money that you want, but in my opinion you will get no 100$ per Mounth for a unfinish work, i know to write a Nostale Emulator needs lot of time but not for 100$ per Mounth for a unfinished project thats the same like OpenNos at the beginning (Just a farming simulator), maybe its work better (performance..) but its still the same (My opinion).

What would be the goal of this... seems you don’t understand what I am doing... if the emulator was finish why would I need money... I don’t ask to be paid for the time of development... a software Engineer is paid about 40 time what I asked here... what I am asking is help from people interested in this project to not loose money for you guys. But obviously you are not interested in this project so you don’t seems to get the point. Obviously if this emulator was done 100% there would be no reason to share my work... I won’t need money to keep developing a finished product and the concept of contributing seems completly foreign to this community. Just look the amount of pull request I have nothing to get from making this project opensource except contribution.
Contribution here can be multiform
- code reviews
- test
- dev
- donations
But I’m not stupide there is really few chances I get the first 3 one. So basicly I’m asking for the 4th one. If even the 4th one is not possible => it’s not a win/win it’s me doing job for you guys waiting to make 1k per month just using my product for free when I barely get anything from this project. If I’m working alone and for free there is no point in letting you guys have access to my work and sell it... when a company do an ipo do you think they have a finished product ? Nope because if the product was finished they would sell it. People who do ipo except help from investors and investors expect a return on investment. I’m asking for investors here not being paid for the product itself. Investor pay for a potential roi. Here the roi is a big reduction/ bonus when the platform will be ready