Translation for TQ App

[idlemonkey]

never said everything was just pointing out some were no worries thanks for the added clarification though

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by -The-Shadow-

I know the dbc structures for all the dbc's that exist in c3.wdc, point I was making before to others is that is the kind of stuff they need to figure out and make their owns apps to do their edits. I've always been one to try to push people into learning how things work and how to take it all apart instead of using existing tools for a free ride. The majority of the time this section is riddled with scam servers with no intention of being honest, and the people who run those servers should absolutely not have those tools so they look indistinguishable from those who actually worked hard to make a good server (another reason I push for people to make their own stuff).

Also in regards to crypt, I wouldn't really call it that, more like encoding of fail. Even current server worlds.dat is ez-pz if you have the xor loop string for decode and know the loop length byte sizes for each section.

You're fighting a loosing battle, you'll always have people that just can't and some that just won't learn how to do it the hard way. Really I still hear people moan about how managed languages wreck programming because people don't bother to learn asm, but that doesn't make them any better or worse than others. I think if a tool is available why would you do it the hard way, you don't see too many people that would learn how to manually compress a file using huffman, they'd sooner just zip/rar the thing.

One advantage with tools hitting the places, is you can still pick the lazy people out from those that just aren't capable of learning, as the lazy will use the tool to make some occasional changes but they won't do anything major.

Originally Posted by MizTenshi

many have used your tools i don't deny that its vastly used on many eudemons pservers, but we never used your tools and (an after thought) have edit pathfinder which was not very difficult. i know you are very well known in eudemons community but this isn't eudemons section. and the files might seem similar in some ways but they still have allot and i do mean allot of differences. conquer and eudemons have not really changed in the years, but zero is a whole different animal (a metaphor for those who don't get it.). yes you are right tq are very poor with protecting there dats but i have seen myself its not a low amount of work one might think. you are the best in eo from what i have seen but i have seen your work funhacker and i mean no disrespect but shadows work is far superior. he is just trying to explain the differences and its difficulty people who don't have experience in this will expect so they can learn and not just copy past BAM open server scams fest like eudemons section has become. when people actually learn and do the work themselves they appreciate and value it more and can be truly proud of themselves because they actually did the work themselves not just buy it done or copy past the work. they need to grow the right way by learning not hand outs.

I never claimed to be supperior than anyone, I've only claimed I won't be deterred by ZO's difficult file system which so far is just as poor as EO



@TheShadow - If you're going to be nasty I'd suggest knowing what you're talking about first, because MapDestination.ini is not EO's pathfinder, it would take you of about 10 seconds to realise this when there are only 15 entries in the mapdestination.ini (in my current client) and the file has not been updated since one of its first releases. The pathfinder is the MapDestination.dat

[-The-Shadow-]

Originally Posted by funhacker

You're fighting a loosing battle, you'll always have people that just can't and some that just won't learn how to do it the hard way. Really I still hear people moan about how managed languages wreck programming because people don't bother to learn asm, but that doesn't make them any better or worse than others. I think if a tool is available why would you do it the hard way, you don't see too many people that would learn how to manually compress a file using huffman, they'd sooner just zip/rar the thing.

One advantage with tools hitting the places, is you can still pick the lazy people out from those that just aren't capable of learning, as the lazy will use the tool to make some occasional changes but they won't do anything major.



I never claimed to be supperior than anyone, I've only claimed I won't be deterred by ZO's difficult file system which so far is just as poor as EO



@TheShadow - If you're going to be nasty I'd suggest knowing what you're talking about first, because MapDestination.ini is not EO's pathfinder, it would take you of about 10 seconds to realise this when there are only 15 entries in the mapdestination.ini (in my current client) and the file has not been updated since one of its first releases. The pathfinder is the MapDestination.dat

I apologize then for making reference to the ini version (which is apparently the wrong file) as I had asked someone which file eo used and I was refereed to the ini itself and when googling to make reference I also only saw information referring to the ini, as I do not work with eo (have only taken some of it apart when asked for help and updates), hence why I am in the zo section (which is the stuff I have worked with) and not the eo section.

However as you said before, tq isn't the best at dat protection, and yes looking at that I would believe they are likely using a similar encoding method that zo's worlds.dat uses. What I was trying to point out by suggesting you were coming off as tooting your horn, is proposing you are the only one who solved pathfinding for a game that is not this one as this one does not use that system. I could brag about things I did over the years too and boast of such talents and accomplishments I have made in decoding and breaking down data (something really anyone can do if they just try) in the eo section but they have no place there. I proposed a question of how it was supposedly difficult based on the data I was given and you explained how it was, an acceptable explanation at that.

If anything, what I posted can be used by others for reference on how the autopilot system is laid out.

So I am sorry you took offense to it and I stand corrected based on dat vs ini, but I am one who strives for facts and accurate perception of detail, in this case I had the wrong base data for the argument, but the point still stands about tooting your horn over another games accomplishment, something I have never done in the section you live in.

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by -The-Shadow-

I apologize then for making reference to the ini version (which is apparently the wrong file) as I had asked someone which file eo used and I was refereed to the ini itself and when googling to make reference I also only saw information referring to the ini, as I do not work with eo (have only taken some of it apart when asked for help and updates), hence why I am in the zo section (which is the stuff I have worked with) and not the eo section.

However as you said before, tq isn't the best at dat protection, and yes looking at that I would believe they are likely using a similar encoding method that zo's worlds.dat uses. What I was trying to point out by suggesting you were coming off as tooting your horn, is proposing you are the only one who solved pathfinding for a game that is not this one as this one does not use that system. I could brag about things I did over the years too and boast of such talents and accomplishments I have made in decoding and breaking down data (something really anyone can do if they just try) in the eo section but they have no place there. I proposed a question of how it was supposedly difficult based on the data I was given and you explained how it was, an acceptable explanation at that.

If anything, what I posted can be used by others for reference on how the autopilot system is laid out.

So I am sorry you took offense to it and I stand corrected based on dat vs ini, but I am one who strives for facts and accurate perception of detail, in this case I had the wrong base data for the argument, but the point still stands about tooting your horn over another games accomplishment, something I have never done in the section you live in.

Understood but it wasn't meant like that.
An example is if for example the creators of open office started out with just Word and someone tried telling them that Excel or Access won't be so easy, their argument that they have already done one type of similar (no matter how different the data) data structures that another shouldn't be so hard.
I'd be willing to bet with your knowledge about ZO you could catch onto EO's file system much faster than you did ZO because you already have TQ's basic understanding of how they store data.

[-The-Shadow-]

Originally Posted by funhacker

Understood but it wasn't meant like that.
An example is if for example the creators of open office started out with just Word and someone tried telling them that Excel or Access won't be so easy, their argument that they have already done one type of similar (no matter how different the data) data structures that another shouldn't be so hard.
I'd be willing to bet with your knowledge about ZO you could catch onto EO's file system much faster than you did ZO because you already have TQ's basic understanding of how they store data.

Oh I have broken down large chunks of eo stuff already (some of it specifically to compare it with zo just to assist in current eo knowledge vs eo data structure to speed up reverse engineering all the zo stuff since zo is an updated engine based on eo, even with its many changes and added/replaced systems), just never looked into mapdest because it simply wasn't something I was asked to look at and it doesn't exist in zo.

I did take part in doing some eo and co stuff, just not all of it, and compared to zo, I consider them extremely simplified as they have much less to them scatter wise and data wise (would have gotten a whole lot more done in zo if zo didn't have so much more data to do the same things). It's just another reason I sit and preach to people here that zo has more to it than those, knowing those are good steps when it comes to learning how to handle zo compared to knowing nothing (in some cases big steps like if you understand byte file structures then any game become somewhat easy to break down), but zo has things neither of them have which adds to difficulty and time consumption (partially because the client people have does not match the db data to start with causing problems unless a dat to db sync is done to correct them), something most do not want to consider when starting a zo pserv is the amount of work even if they did make the tools.

For the record I have done my own compression tools because I like to use my own forms of encryption on file packages that are not aes based and yes I wrote the methods for them to, I did not use some pre-made library. ;p

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by -The-Shadow-

Oh I have broken down large chunks of eo stuff already (some of it specifically to compare it with zo just to assist in current eo knowledge vs eo data structure to speed up reverse engineering all the zo stuff since zo is an updated engine based on eo, even with its many changes and added/replaced systems), just never looked into mapdest because it simply wasn't something I was asked to look at and it doesn't exist in zo.

I did take part in doing some eo and co stuff, just not all of it, and compared to zo, I consider them extremely simplified as they have much less to them scatter wise and data wise (would have gotten a whole lot more done in zo if zo didn't have so much more data to do the same things). It's just another reason I sit and preach to people here that zo has more to it than those, knowing those are good steps when it comes to learning how to handle zo compared to knowing nothing (in some cases big steps like if you understand byte file structures then any game become somewhat easy to break down), but zo has things neither of them have which adds to difficulty and time consumption (partially because the client people have does not match the db data to start with causing problems unless a dat to db sync is done to correct them), something most do not want to consider when starting a zo pserv is the amount of work even if they did make the tools.

For the record I have done my own compression tools because I like to use my own forms of encryption on file packages that are not aes based and yes I wrote the methods for them to, I did not use some pre-made library. ;p

Yeah I gave my own method of compression a go, with text/data files it works great, not so much with images of great detail though
Was quite a simple compression method that took repetitions and squezed them down as small as possible, some files would turn 8byte blocks down to 2 byte blocks or 4 -> 1 and so on

[-The-Shadow-]

Originally Posted by funhacker

Yeah I gave my own method of compression a go, with text/data files it works great, not so much with images of great detail though
Was quite a simple compression method that took repetitions and squezed them down as small as possible, some files would turn 8byte blocks down to 2 byte blocks or 4 -> 1 and so on

Yeah, sounds similar to most packer methods, I assume your method used a representation index for decompression? As for images, you really need to go way more complex and go the ways that png, jpeg2k and jpegxr went to really get that squeeze done. IMO jpeg2k is better but way heavier on cpu than jpegxr type routines, but either way they can act as extremely high compression methods and lossless if set right and set a restore format type.

So if it were a bmp base file, you would run a one of the 3 type routines in lossless with a original format header for restoration. The downside is it will visually be the same but checksum and output byte wise likely to have some difference because of the conversion steps. (These also support transparency layers, but in the case of taking a tga+alpha for instance you can split the data by channel and independently crunch it then recreate on decompression to make things easier.)

Any other methods for packing image data don't work out to hot unless you make use of wavelet transforms or other forms of ugly math to crunch it. Making a compressor for image data that makes "looks the same but isn't the same" outputs isn't something most people consider but does work well.

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by -The-Shadow-

Yeah, sounds similar to most packer methods, I assume your method used a representation index for decompression? As for images, you really need to go way more complex and go the ways that png, jpeg2k and jpegxr went to really get that squeeze done. IMO jpeg2k is better but way heavier on cpu than jpegxr type routines, but either way they can act as extremely high compression methods and lossless if set right and set a restore format type.

So if it were a bmp base file, you would run a one of the 3 type routines in lossless with a original format header for restoration. The downside is it will visually be the same but checksum and output byte wise likely to have some difference because of the conversion steps. (These also support transparency layers, but in the case of taking a tga+alpha for instance you can split the data by channel and independently crunch it then recreate on decompression to make things easier.)

Any other methods for packing image data don't work out to hot unless you make use of wavelet transforms or other forms of ugly math to crunch it. Making a compressor for image data that makes "looks the same but isn't the same" outputs isn't something most people consider but does work well.

Yeah that's all I really did, I mostly did it because I'm planning on making a patcher that takes patches and adds/edits files to the EO client rather than having people download an entire file. It also makes it harder for that wish to rip your work off as they can't really tell what's been edited without some work lol

[-The-Shadow-]

Originally Posted by funhacker

Yeah that's all I really did, I mostly did it because I'm planning on making a patcher that takes patches and adds/edits files to the EO client rather than having people download an entire file. It also makes it harder for that wish to rip your work off as they can't really tell what's been edited without some work lol

Indeed, I was working on something very similar before I quit running a server a few months back. Mine would pull the file to be patched into memory (after it passes a checksum/size check) then make the adjustments based on new data/location/bytelen and do a hash check on the result blob before committing the change to disk (it would also prevent modify date changes).

The only real problem is even though it results in way smaller patches, people could still use something like quicksfv (or any checksum tool that does batch file processing) before the patch to check for checksum changes, and if you work a method to retain checksums (md5/sha types/crc types), then you have to still worry about those who do filesize change checks. So at best it will only stop the novice users.

To make things harder, you really need to make your own container format to store your data and use a loader method to in-memory replace loaded blank/or old datasets, or you could patch the client itself to change how it calls the data as an alternative option. (c# is capable of even win runpe methods for hot program loading direct in memory so that at runtime you can augment data as it is loaded from a host process but it's an ugly messy ***** to do.)

[wolfvane101]

Funhacker your **** good at your work i hope you can come up with a solution for a shop.dat and item.dat for zero we need a good easier way too do things in zero thanks bro

[MizTenshi]

=/ shop.dat are not that difficult nor is itemtype.dat.. but then again i see what problems you might have you need a tool to edit them. its difficult to create the tool if you don't know how..

[funhacker]

Updated the language file.

Located at this post:

Or this link:

[wolfvane101]

well that doesnt help ZO out for english settings lol

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by wolfvane101

well that doesnt help ZO out for english settings lol

The algorithms have been made so that only minor changes are needed to adapt this into ZO/CO and so on so it will be a much faster process for other games, and the EO community will be the ones that will be subject to bugs which are a likely occurrence to happen

[funhacker]

Originally Posted by -The-Shadow-

Barging in from the zo section (sup), I agree, all the tools I made work as dat->-db and db->-dat, even for a game like co with much less data to manage than where I come from, I wouldn't want a form laid out window to manual edit all that content, for example say you want to add a new series of items, like oh say 25k items (something I was doing before I shut down the server I was working on), a manual tool that does manual edits would take decades (even 100 items would take a plenty good amount of time to do), where as db->-dat you can use many tricks to reduce the time it takes to get the job done (eg: sql loops to create batch items then do minor edits in sql where needed for adjustments for tiers/levels and such to get a large new data set created in minutes instead of weeks).

In short I agree, db->-dat and dat->-db for updates is the way to go for speed reasons.

Although I thought I had coded this kind of function in originally it turned out I had a minor error in code that made it in compatible with my existing form system, so I had to re-do it, however it looks a lot neater now though
I've recorded an example and uploaded to the acme site to show you and others how editing multiple items just takes seconds.

First video I show editing the names of all the selected items to match, please note my list box does not update on a timer or in realtime according to data changes, purely by methods calling it, or by focus change between forms.

Second video I show editing the Gold/EP Cost and Description of all the selected items to match.

Final note, I do not show my ref/unique/elite/super gears as they are automatically generated. So not am I only editing 5 items in the second video I'm actually editing 25 items all with different Gold costs.