Developer looking for a new project.

[SteveMoore]

Hi All

The title pretty much says it all, i am a developer and have been developing programs in C, C++, C# And VB (not so much VB because i hate it) for about the last 10 years.

I have developed business applications as well as programs for my own recreation. My most recent accomplishments have been in AI, with a Forex trading bot and a Online poker bot, both of them have been successfully implemented and have been a 5 year work in progress.

However, now I am looking for a new challenge. I would like to create a bot for a 3D game this is a new frontier for me and although I believe the processes are very similar I also believe that with XIV being a new game the shelflife of this game will be long enough to benefit from building the software.

Before deciding if this is the project I wish to start I have some questions for the community.

1) Being a new game I am thinking that they have learned from their FFXI exploits and have implemented some kind of protection against DLL injection, can this categorically be confirmed or denied?

2) Normally with this sort of thing there are memory addresses which you simply should leave well alone and alone and only influance through the correct channels or it is more than likely to raise eyebrows. Is this also the case in XIV? If so which functions have caused bans in the past?

3) Is there currently an opensource project which accomplishes, or is working to accomplish what I am trying to do? In either c, c++ or C#?

4) This is likely to be a work in progress for a long period of time, however I am hoping that v1.0 will have basic functionality which I can build onto for future versions. It is unlikely that I will look at making the bot fully functional in solo battle, but I believe that I can get the bot to fulfil party roles as well as none combat activities. Which functions do you believe will be most useful to have in a XIV bot?

5) I have played XIV briefly during 1.0 however I havent spent any time studying the memory and structure if the game and i believe it is going to change quite dramatically in 2.0 but is there any documentation as research that people have already done which can give me an insight so I do not have to start from scratch?

Final question is If I were to release this into the public domain how many people are likely to use it?

Regards

Steve

[SteveMoore]

In case anyone has any of the same questions as I have I will post my initial finding from my own research.

1. I am quite surprised to learn that my initial findings that there is literally nothing to prohibit .dll injection whatsoever.

2. I am still interested in this factor, I haven't discovered many bans in XIV but I would be interested to know if people have been banned through botting.

3. The only projects I can find in the public domain are abandonware, which is quite disappointing. That said it does give me an insight into how the other developers integrated with XIV v1.0

I don't think I will be using the code though as I will be looking to build it in a slightly different way.

4. After looking at the bots currently available in the marketplace, the basic functionality is there for crafting and gathering but I will be looking to implement some AI techniques to make the bot more self sufficient.

I will be implementing some facilities to make the most of the time the bot has, reverting to default functions when it has finished its tasks and the player is AFK.

5. I have decided I will start from scratch anyway, I have spent the last few hours planning my core program structure and plan to have the core structure and front end implementation ready for phase 3 beta.

If anyone has an interest in getting involved with the project development please feel free to let me know. An understanding of C++ and C# would be advantageous, failing that you must fully understand objection oriented design and implementation.

Further down the line I will also be looking for some people to beta test the bot and report bugs and suggest improvements, if this is something that you might be interested in please feel free to let me know.

Regards

Steve

[vuduy]

I'm also a bot developer myself and FFXIV:ARR is a game that I am quite interested in as well.

I'm quite knowledgeable with C# and C++ since my bots were written using them - UI with C# (WPF) and DLL in C++.

[omfgbbqwtf]

Good evening gentlemen.

I am currently playing the Beta and have played the 1.0 version for a long time. Just a few things to keep in mind while developing your bots. You wont be the only bot out there, so if you want your bot to sell (or if its going to be free ignore this) it needs to be more secure and more feature packed than anyone elses. I botted in FFXI and so did my friends, alot of them got banned (I didnt because I wasnt stupid about it) so being able to proove that your bot is secure would be great.

To answer your question about bannings in FFXIV 1.0, there were probably none. The reason being that the game did so poorly that they could not afford to ban anyone, and also there was no point to banning people since they were planing to remake the game and shutdown 1.0 anyway. It would not be a good idea to assume they wont ban anyone in 2.0. If the game is succesful they will have bannings for sure.


And here is a list of things I think a FFXIV 2.0 bot should do right out of the box.

1: Record map co-ords to make a track to loop through for gathering/fighting

2: Stop at all nearby gathering nodes and gather all items (or selective gather for effeciency)

3: Auto fight any enemy that aggros while you are gathering

4: Have auto macros set up for various levels of health (aka you get low no health it will push a macro, the macro will be written by the player for w/e they are wanting, heals, weapon skills, etc)

5: This is optional but something worth looking into. FATE finder (yes thats the name I came up with but you can use it if you want). Open the map and do a pixel scan for FATEs, read the co-ords and auto move to FATEs location and attack FATE monster.


And now for some add-ons or other types of bots.

1: FATE FINDER (yah I know Im posting it again because it could be a different bot alltogether, but having it able to tie into the gathering bot and do both things at the same time would be great) - This is optional but something worth looking into. FATE finder (yes thats the name I came up with but you can use it if you want). Open the map and do a pixel scan for FATEs, read the co-ords and auto move to FATEs location and attack FATE monster.

2: CRAFTING BOT - Pretty much what it says. Make a list of things to craft, craft em. When done move onto the next item to craft.

3: EVERYWHERE AUCTION HOUSE - Ive seen this done in other games. Normally you would need to be at an Auction Trader NPC to use the Auction House (trading post, market, etc), but some hacks make them accessible anywhere and everywhere.

4: EVERYWHERE BANK ACCESS - Same as above but opens your personal storage (bank, storage, vault, coffer, etc) and allows you to store or remove items from anywhere.

5: MOVE MAP TO SECOND MONITOR - This one from what Ive been told by others is almost impossible, or so difficult that its not worth doing. Basically when the map opens it opens inside the gaming window. But it would be great if we could move the map window out of the gaming window and onto a second monitor so we can leave it open and keep playing. Having a map open at all times without blocking your actual game window would be amazing. (I personally would buy this hack if you could make it)


Also I would be willing to help you beta test anything.

[SteveMoore]

Originally Posted by vuduy

I'm also a bot developer myself and FFXIV:ARR is a game that I am quite interested in as well.

I'm quite knowledgeable with C# and C++ since my bots were written using them - UI with C# (WPF) and DLL in C++.

This is a very similar setup to what I will be using, however from what I have seen there is no need to use .dll injection as I have seen working code from v1.23 which accesses and modifies the processes externally.

I strongly suspect that v2.0 will be different so I have planned to leave the memory management element of the program until I can get first hand experience with XIV.

At the moment I am just modelling the games elements using classes, structs and putting the framework in place.

I will PM you to discuss the prospect of working on the project together.

Steve

@omfgbbqwtf

Its a good point about the bannings in v1.0 and I have a few ideas about how to insulate the user from suspicion, but ultimately there is nothing to stop bot software from being used in a "Peter Griffin" fashion, Speed Hacking and Porting around as though your a GM

So I could never advertise a bot as being ban proof because used improperly every feature has a risk.

I do wish to ask some questions to further clarify the functionality you have mentioned:

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

1: Record map co-ords to make a track to loop through for gathering/fighting

You mean a function in which the player can act out a loop of gathering points and the bot will record the waypoints so that it can replicate the actions?

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

2: Stop at all nearby gathering nodes and gather all items (or selective gather for effeciency)

You mean that if the bot (whilst in automated mode) travels within X Distance to a gathering point and the player has the relevant skills to gather there it will automatically switch classes, gather resources and then resume normal duties?

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

3: Auto fight any enemy that aggros while you are gathering

I personally prefer to flee the enemies and return, fighting as a DoL sucks more than a street hooker, that said I have not played v2.0 so whether that has changed or not I do not know.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

4: Have auto macros set up for various levels of health (aka you get low no health it will push a macro, the macro will be written by the player for w/e they are wanting, heals, weapon skills, etc)

That's an interesting idea which I had not considered, I simply planned to use trigger style functions to monitor key statistics and run predefined logic based on the conditions presented.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

5: This is optional but something worth looking into. FATE finder (yes thats the name I came up with but you can use it if you want). Open the map and do a pixel scan for FATEs, read the co-ords and auto move to FATEs location and attack FATE monster.

I have no idea what you mean by this I'm afraid. Could you please elaborate further because it seems to be a feature which you feel would be an asset.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

2: CRAFTING BOT - Pretty much what it says. Make a list of things to craft, craft em. When done move onto the next item to craft.

I usually spend the vast majority of my time in FFXI and FFXIV crafting and gathering, I had 3 level 50 DOH and 1 Level 50 DOL before any of my DOW or DOM were level 20 haha. So I have some really good ideas for the crafting bot which are totally unique and have not been implemented in any XI or XIV bot previously.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

3: EVERYWHERE AUCTION HOUSE - Ive seen this done in other games. Normally you would need to be at an Auction Trader NPC to use the Auction House (trading post, market, etc), but some hacks make them accessible anywhere and everywhere.

This to me sounds like a great function, however being honest this also sounds like one of the functions which will get you banned, I also feel that it is one of the more detectable hacks, however I have some ideas about how to get an edge on the auction house. (refer back to my first post and some of my previous projects).

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

4: EVERYWHERE BANK ACCESS - Same as above but opens your personal storage (bank, storage, vault, coffer, etc) and allows you to store or remove items from anywhere.

In a similar fashion to the auction house its certainly possible but what concerns me about this is the security issues around using it.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

5: MOVE MAP TO SECOND MONITOR - This one from what Ive been told by others is almost impossible, or so difficult that its not worth doing. Basically when the map opens it opens inside the gaming window. But it would be great if we could move the map window out of the gaming window and onto a second monitor so we can leave it open and keep playing. Having a map open at all times without blocking your actual game window would be amazing. (I personally would buy this hack if you could make it)

Interestingly enough I bet this is nowhere near "nearly impossible" in fact I achieved something very similar during my poker botting days, but instead of pulling it onto a different screen I had to pull it between PC's on a Local Area Network.

And I agree this is the sort of hack which adds massive value while posing very little (if any) security risk.

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

Also I would be willing to help you beta test anything.

Thanks for the offer, I shall certainly be adding you to my list and contacting you nearer the time. In the meantime if you have any further features you would like to see please feel free to post it here.

Thanks for getting involved feedback like this is extremely valuable.

Steve

[omfgbbqwtf]

Its a good point about the bannings in v1.0 and I have a few ideas about how to insulate the user from suspicion, but ultimately there is nothing to stop bot software from being used in a "Peter Griffin" fashion, Speed Hacking and Porting around as though your a GM

So I could never advertise a bot as being ban proof because used improperly every feature has a risk.

Yes of course its impossible to make it 100% ban proof. Most of my friends that got banned in FFXI were banned or stupid crap. Running around screaming "THIS BOT IS GREAT" or some such (not their exact words but you get the idea).

However I have also seen very bad bots that just scream "Hey look at me, Im definetly not a real person playing".

You mean a function in which the player can act out a loop of gathering points and the bot will record the waypoints so that it can replicate the actions?

I am probably not calling it the correct thing, but basically with bots ive used in the past you hit "record" and start running. When you hit "stop" and then "play" the bot returns to where you started running and follows the recorded path. This allows players to setup their own paths to run on, thus making the bot more effecient and safer. If all the bots run on the same path that would be obvious. Also if everyone is running on the same path the gathering nodes might get drained out fast and your items would suck.

You mean that if the bot (whilst in automated mode) travels within X Distance to a gathering point and the player has the relevant skills to gather there it will automatically switch classes, gather resources and then resume normal duties?

Not quite. Most bots ive seen have atleast SOME amount of gathering node detection, some better than others. Basically if you setup your path and the gathering node is lets say 15 feet away, some bots would totally ignore it, while other bots would detect that the node is there and go get it. Its more of a distance thing.

I personally prefer to flee the enemies and return, fighting as a DoL sucks more than a street hooker, that said I have not played v2.0 so whether that has changed or not I do not know.

I have yet to play around with DOL or DOH in the beta. The next beta phase (phase 3) I will try to play around with those and let you know how they are. It really all depends on how they set it up.

That's an interesting idea which I had not considered, I simply planned to use trigger style functions to monitor key statistics and run predefined logic based on the conditions presented.

This is something some of the bots from my FFXI days did and I really liked it.
At 95% hp perform macro 1, macro 1 being just a weapon skill or w/e. When player reaches 50% hp perform macro 2, macro 2 being a cure or something. Good for NM farming. Also a good tie into the FATE FINDER.

I have no idea what you mean by this I'm afraid. Could you please elaborate further because it seems to be a feature which you feel would be an asset.

If you havnt played the beta yet you will have no idea what a FATE is. So ill try to explain it. In FFXI we had NM's (notorious monsters). In FFXIV 2.0 we have FATE's. Basically the same thing but more frequent and there is no issue of monster claiming. Its a free for all, everyone can attack it, everyone can get rewards at the end. FATEs appear on the map so you can easily find them, there is usually a new FATE nearby every 10-15 minutes (they have said that they intend to change the FATE times though so will have to wait and see if this is still a viable option in the future). But basically you would open the map, see a giant purple glowing emblem on the map, rush down, kill the FATE monster, and at the end you get gil, exp, etc.

I feel that this one in particular will be very important because it seems (unconfirmed but this appears to be the direction they are going) that big monsters like Odin, Ifrit, etc etc, will be FATEs. And their location might not always be the same, so having something that can track and follow FATEs would be great.

This to me sounds like a great function, however being honest this also sounds like one of the functions which will get you banned, I also feel that it is one of the more detectable hacks, however I have some ideas about how to get an edge on the auction house. (refer back to my first post and some of my previous projects).

The everywhere AH and everywhere Storage are in my opinion just little extras and not something to focus on unless it looks easy to do. (how hard is it to warp to town anyway right?)

Interestingly enough I bet this is nowhere near "nearly impossible" in fact I achieved something very similar during my poker botting days, but instead of pulling it onto a different screen I had to pull it between PC's on a Local Area Network.

And I agree this is the sort of hack which adds massive value while posing very little (if any) security risk.

I asked other developers in the past for a hack like this and 3-4 of them all said it was too hard. But I am still hoping this can be done and I would absolutely love this.

I am not a developer but will help in anyway that I can. Let me know what info you need.

some info for you if you need it.

[SteveMoore]

Thanks For the clarification mate.

I will be looking into the memory addresses myself in beta 3 to see if some of these things are going to work properly.

The Fate Finder all depends on when the FATEs get loaded into memory, sometimes they are loaded into memory based on proximity which might mean something like the FATE Finder needs something a little more complex to be able to run.

Being able to record paths will be a piece of cake to produce, but i think i will be adding that in as an optional extra. I will probably use point to point paths with a varience factor so that the paths are marginally offset by a random factor within a range so each path is dynamicslly unique but still gets you to the same point.

Rule setting will be easy enough to implement, configuration of the rules will need to be done by the user but i cant see it being a problem.

Thanks for the link to the memory addresses, that will help save a bit of time navigating around the memory space.

Steve

[omfgbbqwtf]

Originally Posted by SteveMoore

Thanks For the clarification mate.


The Fate Finder all depends on when the FATEs get loaded into memory, sometimes they are loaded into memory based on proximity which might mean something like the FATE Finder needs something a little more complex to be able to run.

Im not a developer so Im not sure what you mean exactly. But I can tell you that once you enter a zone your map will show you every FATE currently available even if you are no where near said FATE.

[SteveMoore]

Originally Posted by omfgbbqwtf

Im not a developer so Im not sure what you mean exactly. But I can tell you that once you enter a zone your map will show you every FATE currently available even if you are no where near said FATE.

If it you can see the FATE on the map it will be loaded into memory so it can be accessed and used by the bot to do whatever is required of it relatively easily.

Steve

[omfgbbqwtf]

oh one other thing to keep in mind. Most other bots will have some kind of /tell notification. Usually a loud annoying sound to alert the attention of the player.

[SteveMoore]

Fairly straightforward functionality. In later versions we may extend this to support /tell responses through your smartphone. So you can tell GM's your at your keyboard whilst you are really at work.

The architecture required to do that is being built in v1.0 but whether people will think its useful or not will ultimately determine if we will add it.

Steve

[omfgbbqwtf]

Sounds good to me. There was a similar app for ffxiv 1.0 but it was html based on the developers website. It didnt work very well, but when it did it would show you your current chatlog and let you type things into it via a browser.



^ The guy has remade his website for 2.0 it appears. Not sure if it will still do the browser chatlog or not.

I mostly use the /tell sound alert. Botting while at work IMO is too risky. Crank up the volume and do stuff around the house. Or sleep. it will wake me up.

Might also be a good idea to make sure your bot doesnt interfier with this guys app. Cause I used it ALOT in 1.0 and will definetly be using it in 2.0. Its not a hack or anything, just a parser, auto translator and such.

*edit*

it seems he does intend to have his "chat server" for 2.0.



did a little search and found this video. not sure if you want your bot to do this sort of thing but its good research i guess.

[SteveMoore]

The safety of botting while at work all depends on where you work, what you do and your availability to respond to events.

For example if you are working on an oil rig and cannot answer your mobile or send text messages then yes botting at work is kinda risky.

However if you work in an office or a shop or as a security guard and have ready access to your mobile and can freely send and recieve text messages then there is no reason you cannotfeel completely at ease with our bot once complete obviously.

To be honest I wont be looking to replicate some of his features like the chat server through a web browser because I cannot see the functional purpose of that, if you can access a web browser then you need to physically go and check the page.

I want something which will alert you and draw attention like an sms text message does. I need to have a chat with vuduy about what implementation we will ultimately go with but i cant see any reason we cant integrate with whatsapp and pump messages out to a designated mobile number, without incurring costs.

The advantage of this is if you send messages back we can process them and either send them to the chatlog or process them as a command and change the gamestate using the bot interface.

For example being able to stop, pause, resume, start the bot remotely is nice, but being able to, logout, teleport, return to homepoint and inform your ls or the person who sent you a tell that you are going afk is much more powerful and realistic.

I dont think that we will be getting involved with the translator, thats beyond the scope of our project at this present time.

The event monitor has already been added to our plans with the functionality to respond to the events with a specific set of commands.

The battle parser is one thing which we will be adding because that is something which I personally like to use, its a good way to tune your own battle performance and compare yourself with others.

Steve

[omfgbbqwtf]

I dont know if you have access to the beta forums, but here is some recent info which leads me to believe you can create a "cast while moving" hack.

There is indeed a short delay in spell interruption when moving because the interruption must first be processed client side before the servers can register that the spell has been interrupted. This is also the reason why instant cast spells can be used even when other spells would normally fail. Although we can't make any promises on when this will be addressed, this is an issue we would like to discuss internally.

Usually when something is "client side" its easier to manipulate right?

So if the client never tells the server that you are moving it might work?

[SteveMoore]

To me that means that if it is "first" processed client side then it must later be processed server-side. So unless you can find a way to block the client informing the server of the spell interuption then it will merely be a visual hack and you will not get the desired effect.

the problem with blocking that communication is that you simply do not know what else is packaged with that communication.

Similarly this is a hack which is likely to raise considerable suspicion. I will have a look out of interest but I am more into AI and automation as well as modifications which make the game more enjoyable (that map hack you spoke of) which play by the rules rather than straight up hacking and cheating.

But from what you have said it sounds possible, risky but possible.

Steve