Balanced Classes

[DevGenesis]

Hello,

I have a few questions to ask the rohan community that exists now. The main question is, what your guys opinions on a low rate server and balancitivity of classes. I know that everyone has there own opinions and looks at things differently that is why i am asking, I wanted to gain some type of knowledge of what other players suggest etc. Basically asking for a breakdown of what classes your guys think are support,dps and CC classes, if all skills from classes should be useful, or if certain skills that was never used in iRohan should be boosted and etc. Not anything basic i'm talking about detailed as if there was a low rate server, How would you balance templars, dekans and etc classes to make the game balanced for every class. I know it might not be possible to some people, and it might be possible to balance classes for others. I'd like to have a brief discussion about this so i can potientially work on something or just get a general idea of something and help become better. This has nothing to do with my server so leave it out of it. I just want to hear from others. If my server and bashing comes apart of this thread i'll refrain myself from it because i don't want to deal with that.

[Nevernajt]

Originally Posted by kristian4

 Spoiler

Close ur server

You're boring sir.
@ for spam alzooo

[kristian4]

Originally Posted by Nevernajt

You're boring sir.
@ for spam alzooo

 Spoiler

Oh,no.Plz dont sir,will never d0 dat again,pl0x sensei

[SkypeStealer]

Genesis work on ur brain before working on ur server. It is full of people like you - greedy for money with 0 knowledge about how the game works. It is good that u managed to run a few servers but none of them was actually good. Good luck with Revamped shiet rohan I hope u made some good money out of it.

[kristian4]

Originally Posted by SkypeStealer

Genesis work on ur brain before working on ur server. It is full of people like you - greedy for money with 0 knowledge about how the game works. It is good that u managed to run a few servers but none of them was actually good. Good luck with Revamped shiet rohan I hope u made some good money out of it.

Very well said!

[DevGenesis]

Appreciate it We'll close this thread because said, it has nothing to due about my server. Oh and also we barely have people donate to the server because we don't care about server income. "Money hungry i am ftw"

#Closed

[SkypeStealer]

Yea u are posting a thread here and asking for class balance -> u did perform a class balance maintenance on your server "it has nothing to do about my server" bla bla bla
Of course people are barely donating for your server when u are giving free points left and right. CY@

[DevGenesis]

Originally Posted by SkypeStealer

Yea u are posting a thread here and asking for class balance -> u did perform a class balance maintenance on your server "it has nothing to do about my server" bla bla bla
Of course people are barely donating for your server when u are giving free points left and right. CY@

ikr

[Glixxer]

Well I'll start out by saying that it is crucial that you look at all other races when you balance one class. You have to ask yourself, if I buff the percentage of this effect on this skill, how will it affect how the class can fight or defend against everything else? Class balance is of course not only about skills, it is about the weapons, armor, accessories, pets, talismans, and scrolls in the game.

ACCESSORIES:

If it was up to me, I'd restrict the amount of stats on a single acc to two: ex. Agi and Dex, Str and Vit, Psy and Int.

Let's say that the best boss drops in the game give +75 Str, Dex, Vit. I would restrict this to only two. You can only either have +75 Str/Vit, +75 Str/Dex, or +75 Dex/Vit.

This would accomplish two things:

It would force Str-based Melee classes to give up some Vitality if they wanted to have high damage and accuracy, which makes Agility Dhan's Evasion relevant again.

It would force Templars to either choose extra Health, or a stronger Magic Barrier, as they have to choose between extra Vit or Psyche.

Even Warlocks, who mostly use Int and Vit, would still be affected. They wont have nearly as much mana, and would be very prone to having all of their mana drained by a Human.

Along with this, Costumes, Talismans, Eyes and Ears, SHOULD NOT give +x All Stats. This gives everybody free Dexterity, making Agi Dhans' Evasion useless. It also gives everybody free Psyche and Int, which give Elemental Resistance, and make Frozen, Blazing, Divinity, and Darkness hit dramatically lower, while Invenom remains unaffected by it. On Yolo Rohan, where the best accessories give stats such as +160 All stats and 330 RA, I can have -20k Ranged Attack and my critical hits during combo may end up doing 25,000.........+0 Frozen damage, on a Dhan whose build is full Agi, While his elemental does half of his white damage to me.

[im batman]

The problem with balancing in Rohan is that there are far too many variables to consider. It is not an easy job. One thing positive I have to say with Official Rohan (iRohan and Origin) is that they have made some major steps in balancing by removing the ability of classes to buff others with anything other than party buffs and auras. That made some huge differences in outrageous damage levels. Origin's heavy nerfing of the Heroic powers and limit of about 10% on scrolls & such have helped a lot too. Much to the point that Warlocks and Scouts are pretty much the heavy hitters there (by a small margin)

I do agree that All Stats gear or unqualified attack modifiers are not a good thing. Using accuracy as to counter agility (again, don't let either go to insane levels) is a good way to manage OP-ness. Having accuracy effect a templar's whacks is a plus too (why should a temp hit 100% of the time while a defender can miss? - it doesn't make sense)

[kthxbai2]

Originally Posted by Glixxer

Well I'll start out by saying that it is crucial that you look at all other races when you balance one class. You have to ask yourself, if I buff the percentage of this effect on this skill, how will it affect how the class can fight or defend against everything else? Class balance is of course not only about skills, it is about the weapons, armor, accessories, pets, talismans, and scrolls in the game.

ACCESSORIES:

If it was up to me, I'd restrict the amount of stats on a single acc to two: ex. Agi and Dex, Str and Vit, Psy and Int.

Let's say that the best boss drops in the game give +75 Str, Dex, Vit. I would restrict this to only two. You can only either have +75 Str/Vit, +75 Str/Dex, or +75 Dex/Vit.

This would accomplish two things:

It would force Str-based Melee classes to give up some Vitality if they wanted to have high damage and accuracy, which makes Agility Dhan's Evasion relevant again.

It would force Templars to either choose extra Health, or a stronger Magic Barrier, as they have to choose between extra Vit or Psyche.

Even Warlocks, who mostly use Int and Vit, would still be affected. They wont have nearly as much mana, and would be very prone to having all of their mana drained by a Human.

Along with this, Costumes, Talismans, Eyes and Ears, SHOULD NOT give +x All Stats. This gives everybody free Dexterity, making Agi Dhans' Evasion useless. It also gives everybody free Psyche and Int, which give Elemental Resistance, and make Frozen, Blazing, Divinity, and Darkness hit dramatically lower, while Invenom remains unaffected by it. On Yolo Rohan, where the best accessories give stats such as +160 All stats and 330 RA, I can have -20k Ranged Attack and my critical hits during combo may end up doing 25,000.........+0 Frozen damage, on a Dhan whose build is full Agi, While his elemental does half of his white damage to me.

The resistance problem can be easily fixed in 2 minutes by removing resistance from int and psyche and just moving it onto items where it belongs.

[DevGenesis]

Originally Posted by im batman

The problem with balancing in Rohan is that there are far too many variables to consider. It is not an easy job. One thing positive I have to say with Official Rohan (iRohan and Origin) is that they have made some major steps in balancing by removing the ability of classes to buff others with anything other than party buffs and auras. That made some huge differences in outrageous damage levels. Origin's heavy nerfing of the Heroic powers and limit of about 10% on scrolls & such have helped a lot too. Much to the point that Warlocks and Scouts are pretty much the heavy hitters there (by a small margin)

I do agree that All Stats gear or unqualified attack modifiers are not a good thing. Using accuracy as to counter agility (again, don't let either go to insane levels) is a good way to manage OP-ness. Having accuracy effect a templar's whacks is a plus too (why should a temp hit 100% of the time while a defender can miss? - it doesn't make sense)

I totally agree, I feel like even if you modify and try to heavily nerf or boost the basic skill tree of classes as is without (Changing the skill completely or taking away there OP-ness) is impossible to do. Because each class has something different then one another that should be the case but since where the main dps classes stand now it's hard to rework them without some skill changes or edits.. As we all know,
Dhans = Squishy Dps
Templars = Semi-Tanky Dps (Depending on whats in the server)
Defenders = Vit pets (No such thing as strength defenders anymore)
Dekans = Vit beasts (No such thing as strength dekans anymore nor int)
Guards = Good classes when worked (Can be squishy and a negative when people run away from CS)

[ieyancallo]

In XRohan we at least manage to make other classes usable again namely: str def, str scout, dex scout, savage with pillage being only a damage skill, berserker, str/vit pred, int/str dekans and made dark elves good damage dealers in magic and psy build, also vit for support. I became part of their team weeks after their release and I'm the one responsible in adjusting the skills. I tried to test each character and tried to boost their skills, adjust their cd/duration depending on the gameplay. For XRohan they have PVP system so most of the cd/duration of the skills has been reworked.

But my adjustments are limited for what I have said earlier, I joined their team after the release of the server, meaning the stats of the weapons, acce, etc has been decided already before I came. But the outcome is good for now, no reports about OP or too weak classes. We put WF, Moving Shadow and replaced the root release to stun/root release on scouts so they can at least survive battles, we even boosted their skills.

If you really want to balance each classes you have to take it very seriously. Really, I think it is not hard until I tried it. So many variables to consider. The most important variable for me is the items. Before balancing the characters, make a plan on what are the items will be available in your server, including the stats, scrolls, quest items, acce, etc. Include also the later part, if you're planning to release higher stat items, etc.

Then study each classes but with a wider view, focus on one character at a time, but also consider the others while doing that.

[Glixxer]

Originally Posted by DevGenesis

I totally agree, I feel like even if you modify and try to heavily nerf or boost the basic skill tree of classes as is without (Changing the skill completely or taking away there OP-ness) is impossible to do. Because each class has something different then one another that should be the case but since where the main dps classes stand now it's hard to rework them without some skill changes or edits.. As we all know,
Dhans = Squishy Dps
Templars = Semi-Tanky Dps (Depending on whats in the server)
Defenders = Vit pets (No such thing as strength defenders anymore)
Dekans = Vit beasts (No such thing as strength dekans anymore nor int)
Guards = Good classes when worked (Can be squishy and a negative when people run away from CS)

Assuming we're talking about OG Xor Rohan, or I-Rohan from 2006-2009, Str Defenders were just as good as Str Guardians. They were really one of the best melee characters you could play, tbh. A Str Defender can equip a shield, switch from Empower to Ward, and it is now extremely hard for any other melee class to kill them. Rangers basically have no hope of killing them, but they can easily kill any Dex Ranger with Rush, Shout, Fix, Blue Suction, Extinction...

Watch

. Fixation is basically making this Defender hit 4x harder. Out of all the damage spike skills (Fast/Moving Shadow, CS+OS, SS+SW, Berserk), Fixation is easily the most consistent in how useful it is. It doesn't have to be paired with another skill like CS with OS, or SS+SW. Dekans have Shadow, but they can't stun an enemy as long or as reliable as a Defender can.

As for Str Dekans, the ones that actually used ZHENS as primary weapons, they fizzled out after 2010 and onward. Why? The advantage of the Zhen is its high Weapon Damage, it is the highest in the game after Polearms. Then you look at the 40% melee boost from Dragon's Power, and the 35% from Evolve that act on this high Weapon attack... Str Dekans were very powerful. This advantage became more and more non-existant as YNK and P-Servers added + Attack on every goddamn thing.

At first, Str Dekans would hit 300s very fast with a Dagger, or 750-800s slightly slower with a Zhen. Daggers couldn't meet Zhen damage output, unless it had high Crit % on it, then it could surpass it. A Zhen could not surpass the output from a crit Dagger, but you could use DD on the Zhen, while hitting higher regular hits.

If you look at I-Rohan at around 2013, People have Walter's Medals with +150-270 attack, Talismans that give 100, Rings that give 100 melee each with a 4-set bonus of 250 more, Eyes, ears, costumes that give 100 each with another 250+ pure attack bonus (Verdict/Nocturnal gear), etc. Now instead of people having 600 pure melee only from the Glac Dagger, and 1k from the Glac Zhen, people can have like 2,000 with the dagger, and 2500 with the Zhen, now the attack proportions are all fucked up.

600 pure melee with Dagger Att Speed VS 1,000 with Zhen Att Speed? Kinda fair in different situations. What about 2,000 pure melee with Dagger Att Speed VS 2,500 more with Zhen Speed? There is no contest here, the Dagger is better in all scenarios, even if it doesn't have crit % on it. But of course, this isn't what really killed Str Dekans entirely.

All of this Pure Attack boosted some classes way too much while some were left in the dust. Str Dhans were now able to basically 1-2 hit anybody that was not full Vit, without fail. In the old days, a Str Dhan would outdamage a Str Dekan in the first seconds of PP and DPP... but a Str Dekan's Fast Shadow would quickly bring his damage above the Dhan's on a high HP target... this was no longer the case, since everybody was a 1-shot for a Str Dhan. Str Dhans could simply Hide, DPP, run away. Rinse and repeat. Guardians and Str Dekans-classes that required a good stun setup, were screwed. They were too exposed in this new hit-and-run type of fighting. Their power was meaningless. It's like taking a person from the 1400s who studied martial arts for 30 years, and putting them on a 21st century battlefield where any shooter can take him out in the blink of an eye from hundreds of feet away.

[im batman]

Another thing with str dekans is that the melee->damage output was way lower than other classes at the same melee level. For instance temps at 30k melee hit twice as hard as a str dekan with the same melee using a zhen. Str dekans could hit stupidly high levels of melee but could not utilize it like other classes. That is one of the reasons sepa dekans were so popular way back. Str dekans seldom used non-sepa simply because the low attack speed gave them little advantage. Sepa's higher attack rate at a high melee + crits could do a lot of damage, but still not as much as a temp or a defender's fix at the same melee level.