Rohan Skill Adjustments

[ieyancallo]

I'm planning to study each and every skill of Rohan Hero II/III for my friend. Try to make it as balance as possible. Adjust not just the level 7 effect of the skills, but all its levels (1 to 6). I'll try to have the list first then analyze everything. Because I know that one skill adjustment can affect the other class' skills also and the items in game. It's so hard but I'll try. Any tips? Has anyone tried this before? Analyzing all of the skills simultaneously, not just focusing on one class? BTW, I'm going to post it here once I'm done so everyone can get/share ideas. Let's make Rohan great again.

[Ishtaria]

To be fair it's not actually as difficult as it looks. You just need to start off with an idea of what sort of average damage output you want to see classes do then go through each class and think about what you want them to specialise in - what role they should have in the game.

For instance I've changed the templar to be a caster/2nd line support. I've reduced their melee output to not be so lethal (but still not completely gimped) then reduced the cast time of their attack spells to 0 and adjusted the damage accordingly. This makes them quite a fun and dynamic class to play by being able to throw spells around quickly, backed up with some melee damage and a large array of other skills for party support and self-defence.

One other tip I would give is to not make level 7 skills way more powerful than 6's. Sure there has to be some incentive to upgrade to 7's but it shouldn't be essential. After all I rocked iRohan with my guardian running 6's and no-one knew.

You don't even need to fundamentally change how the skills function to make the game feeling fresh either.

[ieyancallo]

Originally Posted by Ishtaria

To be fair it's not actually as difficult as it looks. You just need to start off with an idea of what sort of average damage output you want to see classes do then go through each class and think about what you want them to specialise in - what role they should have in the game.

For instance I've changed the templar to be a caster/2nd line support. I've reduced their melee output to not be so lethal (but still not completely gimped) then reduced the cast time of their attack spells to 0 and adjusted the damage accordingly. This makes them quite a fun and dynamic class to play by being able to throw spells around quickly, backed up with some melee damage and a large array of other skills for party support and self-defence.

One other tip I would give is to not make level 7 skills way more powerful than 6's. Sure there has to be some incentive to upgrade to 7's but it shouldn't be essential. After all I rocked iRohan with my guardian running 6's and no-one knew.

You don't even need to fundamentally change how the skills function to make the game feeling fresh either.

Thanks for the advice Ish! Yup, that would be great if the level 7 skill is not too powerful compared from the level 6 skills. Planning to make the difference between the level 6 and 7 skills just like the difference between the level 1 and level 2.

I think the only problem is that you must also have the complete phase plan of the server. Because if the server has a plan to add stronger items, stronger sockets, etc. Then the skills must also adjust.

It's hard to make a modified and flexible skill tree but we are trying. Haha.

[DretoNEX]

In my opinion some skills need 100% change on the effects they offer and some need to be changed to the right class.

[Ishtaria]

Originally Posted by ieyancallo

Thanks for the advice Ish! Yup, that would be great if the level 7 skill is not too powerful compared from the level 6 skills. Planning to make the difference between the level 6 and 7 skills just like the difference between the level 1 and level 2.

I think the only problem is that you must also have the complete phase plan of the server. Because if the server has a plan to add stronger items, stronger sockets, etc. Then the skills must also adjust.

It's hard to make a modified and flexible skill tree but we are trying. Haha.

You've covered one of the most important single aspects of server modding and one of the most forgotten about - a complete plan including future upgrades.

Always create a masterplan for what you want to see, change and do with the server and get all the ideas set in stone before you start modifying. Sure things might have to be changed further down the line but that's fine as long as you try and stick close to your original goals.

Too many people just change this and change that with no thought for how it all works together. There's nothing worse than a server with no cohesion to it and random stuff just added for teh lulz. Ammadpurba's is a great example of that and that's not just flaming, it's just the truth.

I think you'll be fine with what you're setting out to do because you want to do a proper job of it and you understand what you need to do to be able to achieve it

Originally Posted by DretoNEX

In my opinion some skills need 100% change on the effects they offer and some need to be changed to the right class.

A lot do and it's something I might consider. Personally I would only change any skill's overall function as a last resort as it would be too tempting to go around changing stuff for the sake of it.

[ieyancallo]

Originally Posted by DretoNEX

In my opinion some skills need 100% change on the effects they offer and some need to be changed to the right class.

Yup. After trying to study each skills of each race and class. I just noticed that some skills are useless/misplaced for me. But all depends on the gameplay of your server.

Originally Posted by Ishtaria

You've covered one of the most important single aspects of server modding and one of the most forgotten about - a complete plan including future upgrades.

Always create a masterplan for what you want to see, change and do with the server and get all the ideas set in stone before you start modifying. Sure things might have to be changed further down the line but that's fine as long as you try and stick close to your original goals.

Too many people just change this and change that with no thought for how it all works together. There's nothing worse than a server with no cohesion to it and random stuff just added for teh lulz. Ammadpurba's is a great example of that and that's not just flaming, it's just the truth.

I think you'll be fine with what you're setting out to do because you want to do a proper job of it and you understand what you need to do to be able to achieve it

I hope so. Many thanks Ish. Truth is, whenever I play in any server of Rohan: I always look back on the old gameplay of Rohan where every class can stand a chance in each and every class depending on their build. As Rohan evolves and changed, I noticed that some class builds disappeared. One good example are the strength scouts, why the hell you gonna put a melee buff on that class and put only one offense skill for melee types (Brandish Kick). After they have noticed that it was too OP. They nerfed the Sharp Melee and made it completely useless for scouts. Only savage giants are getting advantage of that skill. LOL.

Don't forget the increasing of stats of the items. More HP, more DD, more etc. But the skills are just the same. Most of the user's level based skills are getting useless. Just look at avenger's Polluting Blood. If most of the server's players has an average of 100k HP. That skill won't make any damage.

Lastly, the damage drop. That thing must be eliminated. Most players now thinks that DD = defense. No. It must be physical and magical def.

[Ishtaria]

Finally, someone else who understands the things wrong with Rohan's balance! Welcome to this very small and exclusive club

You really don't need any more advice to be honest. I'll be interested to hear what ideas you might have in the future or if you'd like my opinion on any changes you want to make that you don't want to discuss in public my inbox is currently open. It might take me a while to reply though, newborn baby poo monster is my priority at the moment

[ieyancallo]

Originally Posted by Ishtaria

Finally, someone else who understands the things wrong with Rohan's balance! Welcome to this very small and exclusive club

You really don't need any more advice to be honest. I'll be interested to hear what ideas you might have in the future or if you'd like my opinion on any changes you want to make that you don't want to discuss in public my inbox is currently open. It might take me a while to reply though, newborn baby poo monster is my priority at the moment

Haha! Thanks for the warm welcome! For now I'm just thinking of some ideas on what to do with each race and their classes. I'm currently busy with my studies so I can't put more focus on this matter. But I will try to make a note about every ideas that will cross my mind and finalize it before I share it here in epvp.

I'm also part of the brainstorming team of the skill adjustments in one of the servers open right now. We are just adjusting the: effect %, CDs and durations of skills and the outcome is great. We have already made some of the old builds come to life again. Hahahaha.

BTW, I want to learn how to edit skills, is it within the .bin file? Last night I tried to find some tutorials. Can't find any clear one. I have download the tool Structorian, tried to open the skill.bin but I can't seem to adjust the skills there.

I'm so eager to learn how to edit skills, can you please give me some ideas? Or teach me the basics somehow? Or at least tell me the files I need? I'm humbly asking for help. I'm not that kind of person that you have to spoon fed in order to learn something. I always try to solve something for myself before I ask for someone's help. Hehe. Thanks again, Ish!

[DretoNEX]

Originally Posted by ieyancallo

Haha! Thanks for the warm welcome! For now I'm just thinking of some ideas on what to do with each race and their classes. I'm currently busy with my studies so I can't put more focus on this matter. But I will try to make a note about every ideas that will cross my mind and finalize it before I share it here in epvp.

I'm also part of the brainstorming team of the skill adjustments in one of the servers open right now. We are just adjusting the: effect %, CDs and durations of skills and the outcome is great. We have already made some of the old builds come to life again. Hahahaha.

BTW, I want to learn how to edit skills, is it within the .bin file? Last night I tried to find some tutorials. Can't find any clear one. I have download the tool Structorian, tried to open the skill.bin but I can't seem to adjust the skills there.

I'm so eager to learn how to edit skills, can you please give me some ideas? Or teach me the basics somehow? Or at least tell me the files I need? I'm humbly asking for help. I'm not that kind of person that you have to spoon fed in order to learn something. I always try to solve something for myself before I ask for someone's help. Hehe. Thanks again, Ish!

If you wish to change the actualy effect of the skill
Example: Crazy Str to give dex instead of str % you can do it 2 ways.
1st You can edit the packets your client sends .
2nd You unpack the whole mapserver.exe and rebuild the strings inside the skill section of the code.

And no you wont find a tutorial for that.


If you wana edit the skills % as they are and not change what the skill dose just edit skilllevel.bin

[asdfRohan]

Originally Posted by DretoNEX

If you wish to change the actualy effect of the skill
Example: Crazy Str to give dex instead of str % you can do it 2 ways.
1st You can edit the packets your client sends .
2nd You unpack the whole mapserver.exe and rebuild the strings inside the skill section of the code.

And no you wont find a tutorial for that.


If you wana edit the skills % as they are and not change what the skill dose just edit skilllevel.bin

But you know thats not how it works.

[ieyancallo]

Originally Posted by DretoNEX

If you wish to change the actualy effect of the skill
Example: Crazy Str to give dex instead of str % you can do it 2 ways.
1st You can edit the packets your client sends .
2nd You unpack the whole mapserver.exe and rebuild the strings inside the skill section of the code.

And no you wont find a tutorial for that.


If you wana edit the skills % as they are and not change what the skill dose just edit skilllevel.bin

For now I just want to learn how to edit the %. Tried to open the skilllevel.bin and saw many numbers. Haha! Trying to understand each value. Btw, does the .str file effect the things that you see when you open the .bin file? Because I don't know if there are different types of .str files.

[Ishtaria]

Like most bins you have to do a bit of cross referencing. You will find the skill ID# in skill.bin and the details (%'s, cooldown etc.) in skilllevel.bin.

Skilllevel.bin editing is simply for editing the attribute values but not the attribute types (i.e. str instead of dex). Skill.bin can edit the skill type (i.e. self-buff, party buff etc.) but I think this is extremely buggy and can't be completed properly using skill.bin alone. The vast majority of the skill functions are hard coded into the client.

I'm actually not very competent at advanced skill editing because I don't have the programming knowledge needed. I've had to settle with skilllevel.bin edits but for the vast majority of the time this is all I've needed to do to achieve my goals.

[DretoNEX]

Originally Posted by ieyancallo

For now I just want to learn how to edit the %. Tried to open the skilllevel.bin and saw many numbers. Haha! Trying to understand each value. Btw, does the .str file effect the things that you see when you open the .bin file? Because I don't know if there are different types of .str files.

I would not recomend structorian since it has a limit on the rows it reads and if you have more rows then it reads either you know how to edit the template to get the full rows or you can do what i do edit the skills via HEX editor.

You might be like "What are this hieroglyphics" at start but if you insist long enough you wont even need editors only for mass edits. Like copy pasting 300 rows.

Once you understand how bins work in hex you will discover alot of stuff paterns etc.
You will see rohan files in a different perspective.

[Ishtaria]

@ I'll inbox you later

[kthxbai2]

anyone who thinks that editing bin is more than a band aid didnt see ynk's stat calculations ;D