Art Chit-Chat

[A. Musti]

Originally Posted by KingsDesigns

but lets be serious, if you want something professional I highly doubt the place to look would be on gaming forum

Yeah i agree. Nothing you can buy on this site is or should be more than 100-150€ max and even then it has to be very good to be worthwhile.

Originally Posted by KingsDesigns

the complex part is to have the ideia

Well, thats the part people pay for. You have to use your creative mind to apply what you learned with the tools you are using. Even if your customers had the creative mind themselves to come up with good designs, they don't have the skill to use the tools. Thats like telling a beginner to do a 360 on a skateboard. They obviously know what it looks like, but it takes weeks if not months or years to get good at specific things.

Originally Posted by KingsDesigns

There is still another point that is where you're working from, I think 16€/h might not be much if you're on Germany, however, if you're for example in Portugal 2 hours of work per day at 16€/h would put you on a place where you would be gaining more than 80% of the country population that is working 8h/day.

Thats why stupid sites like fiverr are so popular. You can buy Logos for 10€ from some Indian guy and they probably make a months worth of salary from a few designs.

Originally Posted by KingsDesigns

And last but not least, it comes to exactly you said, 16€/h could be justificable, but how does someone prove he worth that money agaisnt any other designer ? Is it right, to make someone work independently of the price so later his artwork is not paid ? Peronsally I dont't think so.

Designs are always worth what someone is willing to pay. If the customers like YOUR specific designs or your references from previous work, then they are probably willing to invest the money to get a good design instead of a 10€ fiverr knockoff from google images. Places like fiverr or EPVP are enough for 16 year old kids running P-Servers or people that need a new wallpaper for their YouTube header, but any professional firm or person running a legit business is gonna want to work with someone professional face to face. If not, then that already tells you enough abou their business. Someone who is not willing to invest into good products isn't someone that will offer good products themselves.

A good designer should be able to choose their customers because they cant wait to get a design from you, not the other way around. Back when i first started offering my services, i tried to keep lowering my prices and let people bargain to get cheaper designs as long as they bought the design from me. But after a while you start to realise these people are not worth anyones time and you should be the one in control of your own worth. Nike paid like $35 for their logo while the citi bank paid $1.5 million for this



Sadly the design market is in a weird place thanks to sites like fiverr or squarespace. It doesn't make things easier considering so many young people choose creative career paths like photography or media design these days. Anyone who is serious about going down this path should be prepared for a lot of competition and exploitation. Like 10-20 years ago you could charge 2000€ for a logo no problem and people respected the craft. But now you have people talking about designs like its something you cook up in 5 minutes (because there is so much low effort stuff everywhere now) and anyone who demands more than 50€ for anything is insane since "anyone could do what you do if they had the tools".

[DrackenDarck]

Gönnt euch das mal

[Goku.]

Originally Posted by Diranui

Nö, das ist aber tausend Mal besser - bin damit voll zufrieden, soll Riot auch ähneln.

Hier wofür ich eigentlich 200€ hätte zahlen sollen, aber nochmal 50€ draufzahlen musste - Ich präsentiere: InGlorys Meisterwerk für 250€

 Spoiler

[/URL]

hahaha, was ist das für ein Müll? xD
das blutet mein Designerherz, das ist kein Logo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KayBur]

Originally Posted by A. Musti

Yeah i agree. Nothing you can buy on this site is or should be more than 100-150€ max and even then it has to be very good to be worthwhile.



Well, thats the part people pay for. You have to use your creative mind to apply what you learned with the tools you are using. Even if your customers had the creative mind themselves to come up with good designs, they don't have the skill to use the tools. Thats like telling a beginner to do a 360 on a skateboard. They obviously know what it looks like, but it takes weeks if not months or years to get good at specific things.



Thats why stupid sites like fiverr are so popular. You can buy Logos for 10€ from some Indian guy and they probably make a months worth of salary from a few designs.



Designs are always worth what someone is willing to pay. If the customers like YOUR specific designs or your references from previous work, then they are probably willing to invest the money to get a good design instead of a 10€ fiverr knockoff from google images. Places like fiverr or EPVP are enough for 16 year old kids running P-Servers or people that need a new wallpaper for their YouTube header, but any professional firm or person running a legit business is gonna want to work with someone professional face to face. If not, then that already tells you enough abou their business. Someone who is not willing to invest into good products isn't someone that will offer good products themselves.

A good designer should be able to choose their customers because they cant wait to get a design from you, not the other way around. Back when i first started offering my services, i tried to keep lowering my prices and let people bargain to get cheaper designs as long as they bought the design from me. But after a while you start to realise these people are not worth anyones time and you should be the one in control of your own worth. Nike paid like $35 for their logo while the citi bank paid $1.5 million for this



Sadly the design market is in a weird place thanks to sites like fiverr or squarespace. It doesn't make things easier considering so many young people choose creative career paths like photography or media design these days. Anyone who is serious about going down this path should be prepared for a lot of competition and exploitation. Like 10-20 years ago you could charge 2000€ for a logo no problem and people respected the craft. But now you have people talking about designs like its something you cook up in 5 minutes (because there is so much low effort stuff everywhere now) and anyone who demands more than 50€ for anything is insane since "anyone could do what you do if they had the tools".

A common problem when the market is already oversaturated with specialists. If earlier there were few designers or programmers. But now, thanks to the courses, thousands of new specialists (good and not so) appear every year, respectively, it is already easy to find someone who will do the job well enough and at the same time cheaply.

[NEX143]

Originally Posted by KingsDesigns

I[---]I think 16€/h might not be much if you're on Germany, however, if you're for example in Portugal 2 hours of work per day at 16€/h would put you on a place where you would be gaining more than 80% of the country population that is working 8h/day.
And last but not least, it comes to exactly you said, 16€/h could be justificable, but how does someone prove he worth that money agaisnt any other designer ? Is it right, to make someone work independently of the price so later his artwork is not paid ? Peronsally I dont't think so.

Originally Posted by A. Musti

Yeah i agree. Nothing you can buy on this site is or should be more than 100-150€ max and even then it has to be very good to be worthwhile.



Well, thats the part people pay for. You have to use your creative mind to apply what you learned with the tools you are using. Even if your customers had the creative mind themselves to come up with good designs, they don't have the skill to use the tools. Thats like telling a beginner to do a 360 on a skateboard. They obviously know what it looks like, but it takes weeks if not months or years to get good at specific things.



Thats why stupid sites like fiverr are so popular. You can buy Logos for 10€ from some Indian guy and they probably make a months worth of salary from a few designs[...]

I agree with you both in every aspect! That's right we currently live in an age where not only everyone who can put avatars together and set some after effects keys call him as a designer, but also in a mentality called "Cheaper always works".

So I started to develop the strategy for "how much can I charge", therefore I looked at some of the strategies of the agencies, here it is especially about avoiding to exchange time for money, because this is the worst deal you can make. I suggest you look at it from a macro perspective. Consider first how much value your product is compared to the dimension in which it is used. If the logo/design is intended for a use that will bring the customer higher margins/revenues/turnover, the logo is clearly worth another place. Of course there is an unavoidable factor called time in the space.

But it should not lead directly to that as Musti says, time = better result. That is the difference here too, you should be paid for your creativity, not for the time you lose per design. That's why there are a considerable number of time designers who don't put their creativity on paper, but copy/paste as in the Moe (no front on the spot) case.

[Nayunh]

Da schaut man ein mal in diesen Thread und bereut es sofort wieder. Was muss ich hier nur sehen und lesen: Jemand kommt ernsthaft hier rein, um zu sagen, dass Designer weniger als 50€ nehmen sollten, weil das Threaddesign ja nur 1-2 Stunden in Anspruch nimmt. Hammer. Soll er doch Fußballspieler werden, als nächster Cristiano Ronaldo würde er einen super Stundenlohn haben. @ Ich glaube da kann man es echt vergessen, mit solchen Leuten zu diskutieren. Jemand der so argumentiert, dem antworte ich schon gar nicht mehr. Sollen die sich mit so InGlorys auseinandersetzen.

Wo wir beim Thema sind: @ Hat dich das ernsthaft 250€ gekostet? Wieso hast du dich dann dafür entschieden, das zu zahlen. Ich mein, der hat ja sogar Referenzen online, die absoluter Schrott sind. Ich cringe schon immer in meinen Bürostuhl und unten wieder raus, wenn er unter Metin2-Threaddesign-Anfragen mit seinem "Wir haben dich soeben privat kontaktiert" kommt. Aber das ist ja wirklich mehr als frech, dass er zusätzlich dazu noch so viel Geld verlangt und dann on top auch noch sowas abliefert.

Schade, dass die Sektion hier so tot ist. Scheinen ja doch noch wenige Leute mit künstlerischem Verstand hier zu sein - der Rest treibt sich im Artist Trading herum. Wie ironisch.

[Krippz]

Wie nennt sich dieser Effekt?






Edit: habs gefunden - pixel sorting oder blurred lines

[DrackenDarck]

Originally Posted by Krippz

Wie nennt sich dieser Effekt?






Edit: habs gefunden - pixel sorting oder blurred lines

Noch nie gesehen, sieht seltsam aus...

[Krippz]

Originally Posted by DrackenDarck

Noch nie gesehen, sieht seltsam aus...

Sorry, dass die Antwort so spät kommt, aber du kannst mal hier rein schauen. Gibt eigentlich echt coole Sachsen.

[DrackenDarck]

Originally Posted by Krippz

Sorry, dass die Antwort so spät kommt, aber du kannst mal hier rein schauen. Gibt eigentlich echt coole Sachsen.

Es gibt coole Sachsen echt? ich dachte die Sachsen sind alle komisch, vorallem mit Ihrer Aussprache :/

Und... Reddit ist kacke -_- die Handhabung der Seite ist ätzend.
hmmm paar nette Sachen dabei.

Da sieht es doch vieeel übersichtlicher aus

[Goku.]

na, wer von den alten ist noch im Grafik Gewerbe? ^^

[DrackenDarck]

Originally Posted by Goku.

na, wer von den alten ist noch im Grafik Gewerbe? ^^

Ich. Privat Künstler.