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News in the case of Frogster vs. elitepvpers

Discussion on News in the case of Frogster vs. elitepvpers within the e*pvp News - EN forum part of the e*pvp News category.

Old   #1
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News in the case of Frogster vs. elitepvpers

Our partner in the matter of law & order, the Wisotzki Group, got to reveal some interesting information during researching for our lawsuit. Wisotzki has been contacted by an informant who agreed providing incriminating documents. A German newsportal already covered the story about Gameforge, which keeps a shareholding of more than 80% in Frogster, being entangled in a secret partnership with a goldseller (we'll provide an English article as soon as possible). This partnership implied that Gameforge provides ingame gold to the goldseller which sold it to the consumer. Profits have been shared accordingly.

It's easy to link that episode to our conflict with Frogster. elitepvpers is being accused of selling gold "commercially" while the company itself executes such methods in order to make more profit. Is the lawsuit against elitepvpers still justifiable? Is this the only skeleton in Gameforge's/Frogster's closet? The sources of information are far from lieing waste. It's quite possible that more is to be revealed. We haVe formed our opinion. Now it's your turn.

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John Dread is offline  
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Old 03/10/2011, 15:42   #2
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It seems that they want to control gold selling services.As always it's all about money, and their next target is getting money from sueing epvp.

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Old 03/10/2011, 22:12   #3
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they just whant money thats all. >.> Frogster is a one srewed up company X_x
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Old 03/10/2011, 22:34   #4
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Now how did that get there? (pulls skeleton out of closet)... :P
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Old 03/11/2011, 03:21   #5
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Old 03/11/2011, 09:49   #6
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ha thats so typical frogster their item shop is also so expensive compared to other games and to play the game rom good in high level areas depends mainly on how much money you invest.....tssss
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Old 03/11/2011, 10:28   #7
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Oh this gave me a good laugh, lol @ frogster
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Old 03/11/2011, 10:36   #8

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GF sucks.
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Old 03/11/2011, 10:38   #9
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The next step is pay for play!
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Old 03/11/2011, 13:18   #10

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Next step is themselves selling gold
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Old 03/11/2011, 13:30   #11
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Originally Posted by lolrko View Post
Next step is themselves selling gold
I'd be totally ok with that. As long as they do it openly and don't accuse us of acting illegally. That would be the best scenario right now.
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Old 03/11/2011, 14:54   #12
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English Please:

Anyone? I am very much interested to what the content of this article.
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Old 03/11/2011, 16:29   #13
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gulli owns documents which may put Gameforge in a state of doubtfulness. The document prove that the publisher of games like OGame, Ikariam or Metin2 has been in a commercial partnership with a goldseller for years. Contradictory to the own guidelines, profit has been made by selling virtual goods. Also with products from competitors.

In early march, a lawsuit between the forum and the German publisher Frogster went round the newsportals. The administration and accordingly the users are being accused of selling gold, accounts and software for the game Runes of Magic "in a commerical way". In a statement the administration clearly distances itself from those reproaches. The browsergame-company Gameforge (GF) keeps a shareholding of more than 80% in Frogster.

The Wisotzki Group, as a information service for elitepvpers in this case, revealed interesting news during research. An informant contacted Wisotzki and claimed to have tenuous information about the company Gameforge and he wanted to publish it.

gulli:News has information at hand, which should cause many questions about Gameforge. The corporation which serves over 200 million players in client-based games worldwide, seemed to be in a commercial partnership with a so-called "goldseller". Among the documents there are contracts which prove that there was a partnership with a seller of virtual goods.

The seller is called The site is currently offline but will return online with a new administration. Since 2004, on that site many virtual goods have been sold for dozens of games without permission of the respective publisher. Gameforge items also were in the product line.

Usually publishers don't tolerate such sellers. The act of purchasing virtual goods from third party companies is seen as unfair and damaging to the publisher's business and is being punished accordingly. The informant stated that Gameforge, in contrast to usual practice, saw the shop as an additional source of profits.

The former goldseller also said that only a few months after launching his project he was contacted by Gameforge. The documents he sent us prove that the publisher was interested in a secret partnership with

This partnership began in 2005, with a private meeting with the Gameforge management. The informant stated that the general conditions of this questionable partnership were discussed "during drinking coffee". After confirming that he makes a profit of more than 5,000€ the publisher rushed for a co-operation.

After further meetings, in April 2005, the decision of creating a new company with the name "Ingameparadise Limited" was made. By a contract of purchase the informant should include his whole company in the LTD. That included domain, site-layout and further copyrights. In return Gameforge would pay the server costs and several advertising campaigns for Ingameparadise.

Condition of the 2-year contract was that Gameforge provides items for at least 3 of its games in the shop of Ingameparadise Ltd. Another condition was a profit of at least 50,000€ monthly. The contract also includes an obligation of secrecy. Infringing this obligation would result in a fine of 5,000€.

Because of the advertisement Gameforge launched around the net, the shop gained thousands of visitors daily, according to the informant. The profits grew accordingly. While the publisher heavily critisized purchasing and selling their virtual goods, 5-digit profits were made.
However, the community was a hindrance in this business. The banner advertisement allowed conclusions that Gameforge was somehow involved and the users started suspecting. Many players complained that Gameforge officially promoted the "damaging" trade of virtual goods.

After discussions with community managers the GF administration decided that the contract should phase-out in April 2007. gulli:News owns the e-mail history which gives clear evidence. On the internet there is very few proofs left of that incidence, so that the community couldn't invoke this.

After GF retreated from that partnership, the informant also pulled back from the LTD. Ingameparadise Ltd. was given to a business contact in Asia.

We let readers judge over these business methods. Also because not only Gameforge goods have been offered but also goods from competitors (World of Warcraft, Guildwars, Lineage2, Everquest, Everquest2, O-Game, Ultima Online, Eve Online, Final Fantasy XI, Diablo2, Ragnarok Online, RF Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Inselkamp etc.). At least the Gameforge subsidiary Frogster now is seen in a different light concerning its conflict with elitepvpers. Preventing trading virtual goods privately is a thing. Having a parent company which was involved in a goldseller project is another.

Update (13:49)

-Contacted PR (Gunnar Lott) via e-mail
-Hints to this article seemed to have been deleted in several forums of Gameforge

Update (14:50)

-Phonecall with Gunnar Lott.
-Contracts being checked and statement work in progress for journalists

Update (17:45)

-Lott: Deletion of threads "accidentally" "that's not our company's politics"
-"Community managers are told to refer to the statement"

Update (18:25)

-Statement from Gameforge

Rough summary:
Gameforge generally doesn't tolerate goldselling (reference to General Terms and Conditions)

Gameforge admits being in a commercial partnership with ingameparadise in 2005 "for a short timespan"

Claims that there were no "comprehensive advertising campaigns" but there were banners in their game "OGame"

Claims that they sold their shareholding back to ingameparadise in Dec. 2005.

Claims that beside paying server costs there weren't any other services or transactions.

Partnership was a "mistake" but back then the situation was not that clear concerning that business.

Claims that Gameforge never was involved in selling their goods and that they pulled back relatively soon.

Gameforge was a start-up company in 2005 so they decided to "test that novel business model" since they didn't want to annoy players with advertisement and they needed the money.

Reference to an article a lawyer (who represented Gameforge in the matter of law) wrote which should state that the situation in law was unclear.

Apologize for this "flaw in the history of their company" but they still are against goldsellers.
A very rough translation. If you want a direct one you'll have to use Google translate or wait for an English newsportal to cover the story.
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Old 03/11/2011, 16:41   #14
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Frogster sucks. I hope they will not make it to close epvpers. Good luck at the court admins!!
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Old 03/11/2011, 22:55   #15
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Omg Im think they just want to erase elitepvpers to get controll of Gold Selling /Account selling or somewhat like that.... If they want this they have to walk over my dead quiet Body !
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