From our perspective.

[Zombe]

It's not the hackers' fault...
Ok, now listen to my story.

I have created a character on Rondow, leveled it to lvl40 by hacking, not seen by a single person, I got to 40 in 2 days.
On the 3rd day of gameplay, 1 legit guy saw me, and I was kind enough to level him up!
I said:
- Hey man, it seems ur having a hard time leleling... C'mon, I'll help you out!
And he was like:
- Thx so much, I love u man!

And after 40 minutes of leveling and listening how grateful he is, he just spits to my face:
- F**k u, hacker, Thx for leveling me, but now i'mma report u. I got more then plenty proof that ur hacking.
Then logged off.
And yeah, the next day I am banned.


So, it is not that the hackers are so mean to drag all mobs outside the map to level themselves,
It's the legits that report a hacker whenever they see one.
If you would know that you wouldn't get reported if you are seen, would you bother dragging some mobs outside a map? Would you bother using ghostmode whenever you see someone coming your way? Of course no.
So, the legits themselves force us to drag all the mobs outside the map, so we wou;dn't be banned.

I was once playing on an old Chinese dekaron p-server, where 50% of people were hackers, but the 50%legits were not reporting them, because they didn't care.
Guess what? The game was balanced. Mobs were not being dragged out of maps, hackers were leveling legits without fear to be reported.
Back then, I was a legit, and I was leveled by hackers more then I leveled up myself.

Now, a lot of you might be thinking: "Hey, but hackers level up faster then legits, it's just not fair! Of course legits will report hackers!"
The answer is this: You are missing the point of this. Hack or not to hack is a free choice. Every hacker can become a legit, and every legit can become a hacker, and as long as people don't understand that they could be just like the other, this madness will go on and on without an end.

So, the conclusion would be: As long as the legits have the habit to report hackers, the hackers will act like they are acting now, and nothing is ever going to change. Period.

[Vaidas B]

It depends on the people as well, legit and hacker, 5 min ago when i was legitly lvling in north morte i saw a hacker (a huge wave of mobs running around), i asked him to leave and he did.
But a few hours ago i also saw a hacker (also asked him to leave and stop stealing my mobs) but he started shouting "F**k u legit" so i reported him.

So the moral is: both legit and hackers can be ********, but its best if we wont get in each others way

[gabriel.gray]

Interesting topic.

I don't mind if people hack in instanced areas, it is their playground and they do not interact with anyone else.

For all I care they can spend all their free time there.

What I can't stand is the same thing original poster mentioned - monster vacced to hell on many maps, bosses constantly being gone and of course hacked Dead Fronts.


Now, replying to several people:

1) To the one that said legits are no-lifers: for your information legit players enjoy more the experience of human contact - playing with friends rather than experience gain from killed mobs. One could ask who is no-lifer, someone who has a legit account that he enjoys playing or someone who remakes the accounts over and over because the previous ones are being banned (obviously some are smart enough to not get caught, but I'm making a generalization here)

2) To the one that said something about motivation: I can certainly understand that hacking has its appeal - you are experiencing the game from a different perspective and there is thrill in doing something that others can't.
I can also understand when some people (hackers) on purpose fuck with other people (legits or hackers) by making their game unplayable (trying to kill them either by skillhacks or by overluring or by wasting their time hacking DFs). After all this is human nature, if you could smash someone's car with a sledgehammer and you were told that there will be no consequences - I believe most would do it (there would be exceptions of course).


Anyway, my main points are this: it is not hacker's fault that they can hack. It is GameHi's fault that they made a game that is easily hackable.

Some people just want to experiment and some people just want to take the easy way.
I bet everyone had a thought about not paying for something in the shop at least once, the difference is that some are willing to try, some are waging benefits (will have something for free) against consequences (can go to jail/juvy/be embarrased by being caught) and some have a moral compass that tells them it's not their way of doing.

The same thing with hacking - some will never do it, some will do it because they are pretty sure they can get away with it and some will do it regardless. This is how it is and nothing will change it, legits have to either suck it up or just get over this game and find something else.

The second point is: will it still be enjoyable for the majority of hackers when most of the legits leave?

[BubblePuppet]

Originally Posted by gabriel.gray

Interesting topic.
Anyway, my main points are this: it is not hacker's fault that they can hack. It is GameHi's fault that they made a game that is easily hackable.

I agree with most parts of your post,except the quoted part.Saying its not hackers fault for not hacking is just bull*.Most people hack to gain an advantage vs other players (also known as cheating)and thats fine by me,if you hack or why you hack idc,but not taking responsiblity of your own actions by saying its gh fault is ridiculous and childish imo.

[ADHDKiD]

Originally Posted by InstantDeath

I'm sorry but there reall isn't anything more this community can do about it. There have been attempts to reduce the leeching of the hacks (mostly "stupid/lazy" people are the ones leeching). Ex. no skillhack is posted here (posting will result in infractions) and we wont support 1-click hacks (hacks that are just ready to get used), you need to make the hacks yourself. Allthough there is much info available the biggest responsibily is carried by the hackers.

Hacking should be done so that it doesn't disturb the legit players IMO...

To be honest, I think you should have to prove that you know what you're doing.


i.e. explain to a group of people that you can properly find the offesets to update skillhacks, wallhacks, etc. I also think this forum should be invite only. I'm one of those "lazy" people, but I've done my good deeds. There was a game called "Helbreath" I was one of the major hack releasers, and pserver sources & client sources. I won't put the website here simply because the website no longer exists. The point is, I try and respect other legit levelers, and other hackers. If theres someone hacking one area, I leave it. But if I've been there for say, 4 hours straight, I pk the fuckers. I try and pick locations on the map that not many legits go, I also NEVER SKILL HACK PEOPLE DOWN! If I find people skill hacking legits down, I fraps and turn it in. Bitch all you want, you deserve it.

I agree with what Conscience said. Just cause its free, and you can do it, doesn't mean you should. Just cause you have a gun, and the concealed weapons permit, doesn't mean you should kill someone or rob a bank. Half the people who are on ePvPers, are leechers. I take that back, 90% of the community. InstantDeath, Nebular, Merovigian, all in the 10% of "Give 100%, and ask for nothing in return". I'd be in that category if I had more time.


To put it simple, You fuck around, and people are going to stop releasing things. I'd laugh my ass off so hard, if InstantDeath, Neb, and Merv, just left. This section would be NOTHING without them. I'd cry and beg Instant, and tell him I'd give him many reach arounds, but you guys get the point. Don't be stupid, act your age, quit being retarded. You know right from wrong. THINK!

[bottomy]

Originally Posted by ADHDKiD

To be honest, I think you should have to prove that you know what you're doing.


i.e. explain to a group of people that you can properly find the offesets to update skillhacks, wallhacks, etc. I also think this forum should be invite only.

well some of us have talked about making a new section that is invite only. but it wasn't so much a section where only 'worthy' people get the hacks, it was more just a place to discuss hacks etc. cause some people might not feel comfortable discussing all that public. but making it so you have to have some knowledge to get hacks, i do not agree with that idea. cause sharing the hacks freely prevents/helps prevent people from purchasing them.

[gabriel.gray]

Originally Posted by BubblePuppet

I agree with most parts of your post,except the quoted part.Saying its not hackers fault for not hacking is just bull*.Most people hack to gain an advantage vs other players (also known as cheating)and thats fine by me,if you hack or why you hack idc,but not taking responsiblity of your own actions by saying its gh fault is ridiculous and childish imo.

I wasn't talking about moral issues here. Of course the hackers hack because that is their choice. But in many games the developers actually take the task of stopping/preventing on their shoulders. Here the situation is silly, not only they do not do it but they even coded the game in a way so much stuff is possible to do.

In that way it is their fault. Move the monster parameters control server wise, move the GM char recognition server wise and move the player abilities server wise and you no longer have vachack, non-aggro, speedhack and skill hacks.

[~Kakkarot~]

if it would be so easy, dont you think they would do it...dont you think all developers would do it, do you not think that then this forum wouldnt exsist and there wouldnt be such a huge list of games that are curently beeing hacked

i belive that every mmorpg out there is also here...

[BubblePuppet]

Well,like Omega said,just dumping that stuff server side isnt that simple.Especially considering where gh was as a corporation before dekaron was released .

[gabriel.gray]

Originally Posted by ~Kakkarot~

if it would be so easy, dont you think they would do it...dont you think all developers would do it, do you not think that then this forum wouldnt exsist and there wouldnt be such a huge list of games that are curently beeing hacked

i belive that every mmorpg out there is also here...

I am not saying it is easy, I'm saying is that they don't even try.

And come on - having things controlled by client screams from the start: "you have the control, you can hack it all you want".

They changed some parts to server side (like the fortification bonuses from talismans), it probably was an easy change. Transfering control of monsters to server is clearly more difficult.

But the reason the developers are not doing it is simple: main player base for Dekaron is Asia and there they need to provide their version of social security number. For those players it is not possible to make accounts over and over again. If they get banned - they stay banned (unless they choose to fake KSSN which is illegal; do i have to mention that the laws are more strict there?).

So, there is not much hacking going on in Korea and therefore the developers do not feel that hacking is a pressing issue for them.

Originally Posted by ~Kakkarot~

dont you think all developers would do it

They would if they had resources for it. If a hole in an operating system is discovered, the developers focus on fixing it and the higher risk the problem is - the faster the fix for it comes. Be it paid system like Windows or free one like Linux. They have resources to do so (paid ones have money, free ones have community).

Most game developers might not have as much resources and also it is not a super high priority, because - after all - it is just a game.


But look at VALVE and their constant fight with cheaters: VAC2 is constantly being updated. So are the cheats but you can see that VALVE actually cares and has resources to provide frequent patches into the anti-cheat system.

I'm not sure how Blizzard handles it, but I've seen recently an information that 300.000 accounts have been banned for using bot applications. They even sued or try to sue one of the bot makers (don't know how that went, but again - a clear action taken).


Anyway, anyone knows how good PunkBuster is? I remember it when I played Counter-Strike and it was ok back then. I hear that it's much improved.

Xigncode obviously fails, but would PunkBuster fail as well?