New Project, New Patch

[FuriousFang]

I know I start a lot of new projects, but they're getting more and more stable. Anyways, what patch should I code for?

4287 if you're not familiar with it:

[pro4never]

In my eyes you need to find a patch you're comfortable working on and stick with it... I understand abandoning projects (everyone does) but you seem to bounce back and forth so often...

Supportive of how much you've been learning (regardless of what any of you think of him... he's come a LONG way in the last few months) but if your goal is an actual viable project then you really need to find something and stick with it (wasn't it just last night you were considering the possibility of hellmouth? lol)

[BioHazarxPaul]

as i stated on pro's forums id rather be with a group of people doing something then by my self, I can understand that trust is a bit of an issue tho..

[FuriousFang]

Originally Posted by pro4never

In my eyes you need to find a patch you're comfortable working on and stick with it... I understand abandoning projects (everyone does) but you seem to bounce back and forth so often...

Supportive of how much you've been learning (regardless of what any of you think of him... he's come a LONG way in the last few months) but if your goal is an actual viable project then you really need to find something and stick with it (wasn't it just last night you were considering the possibility of hellmouth? lol)

My goal is to learn C# as fast as I can and experience coding in each patch. These, however, are the patches that I have come to that I would love to code for and have an appreciation for.

I'd still love the opportunity to help organize your source, but I just feel like I need more experience first. My last source was so close to TQ's resource efficiency. I was only off by a few hundred kb. Maybe I can get even closer if I try hard enough.

Originally Posted by BioHazarxPaul

as i stated on pro's forums id rather be with a group of people doing something then by my self, I can understand that trust is a bit of an issue tho..

You can try coding what I have into C++ if you want. o.o

[Lateralus]

If you really want to practice, convert a source you've already completed into another language. Different patches don't differ THAT much...

[FuriousFang]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

If you really want to practice, convert a source you've already completed into another language. Different patches don't differ THAT much...

I already started it. My newest project is going to be in C++. (Maybe) We'll see where it takes me.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by FuriousFang

I already started it. My newest project is going to be in C++. (Maybe) We'll see where it takes me.

Just a warning; it's not at all easy... I plan to convert the source I'm using in C# to C++ when everything is fixed. Good that you're not writing it in scratch, because it would take unbelievably long unless you're highly experienced with the language. Keep in mind that I've been learning C++ for a year and a half, and although I beast the syntax and concepts, when it actually comes to applying the knowledge to large scale projects, I fall short.

Or maybe you should learn x86 assembly... You can help secure the sources you already have with improved clients. I just recently changed the key creation routine (am I one of the few?) and can use a formula (I have a program that randomizes values to input and gives the key and corresponding opcodes to change in the client) to generate 16^2 possible keys. Security. It wins.

[FuriousFang]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Just a warning; it's not at all easy... I plan to convert the source I'm using in C# to C++ when everything is fixed. Good that you're not writing it in scratch, because it would take unbelievably long unless you're highly experienced with the language. Keep in mind that I've been learning C++ for a year and a half, and although I beast the syntax and concepts, when it actually comes to applying the knowledge to large scale projects, I fall short.

Or maybe you should learn x86 assembly... You can help secure the sources you already have with improved clients. I just recently changed the key creation routine (am I one of the few?) and can use a formula (I have a program that randomizes values to input and gives the key and corresponding opcodes to change in the client) to generate 16^2 possible keys. Security. It wins.

I'll ease into C++. It is a lot different.
I guess my new project is going to be C# for now.
I noticed that C# uses 4,800Kb for resources ><
My Account server runs on 4,840Kb of ram. That kinda ****** me off. =[
C++ only uses 2,000 and something Kb. ><

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by FuriousFang

I'll ease into C++. It is a lot different.
I guess my new project is going to be C# for now.
I noticed that C# uses 4,800Kb for resources ><
My Account server runs on 4,840Kb of ram. That kinda ****** me off. =[
C++ only uses 2,000 and something Kb. ><

Yeah, C# sacrifices efficiency for ease, just like C compared to assembly; if you've got a nice project done in C# that you're going to use constantly and/or uses too many resources, convert it or write it in C++ from the get-go.

Although... C++ is very similar to C# (and vice versa), just more concepts to learn and generally tougher.

[pro4never]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Yeah, C# sacrifices efficiency for ease, just like C compared to assembly; if you've got a nice project done in C# that you're going to use constantly and/or uses too many resources, convert it or write it in C++ from the get-go.

Although... C++ is very similar to C# (and vice versa), just more concepts to learn and generally tougher.

Lets face it though... system resources are cheap as hell right now and so spending large amounts of time just to get a small amount of extra performance out of it seems like a waste imo.

I mean really... extra few mb of ram usage, you'll rarely even notice the difference.

[JobvdH]

I say the oldest one, there will come more new servers with arena and there are some now, we dont have any classic servers we maybe have butnot much maybe 1 or 2

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by pro4never

Lets face it though... system resources are cheap as hell right now and so spending large amounts of time just to get a small amount of extra performance out of it seems like a waste imo.

I mean really... extra few mb of ram usage, you'll rarely even notice the difference.

Still, if you're planning on hosting a massive server, you should be able to handle the amount of people and data as efficiently as possible - regardless of how long it takes. It's not necessarily a waste of time, because you still get something out of it after all is done.

I don't know, this is just my view. I'm a perfectionist though. >_>

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by pro4never

Lets face it though... system resources are cheap as hell right now and so spending large amounts of time just to get a small amount of extra performance out of it seems like a waste imo.

I mean really... extra few mb of ram usage, you'll rarely even notice the difference.

So because you have a lot of resources, use bad practices and inefficient languages to accomplish complex tasks because.. you can? Goes back to my original arguments I made long ago. I can make a CO server out of mIRC scripting.. doesn't mean I should. If you're not going to make it the best you can make it, why make it? Why be ok with mediocrity? If you CAN do better, why not DO it? If someone wants to try a new language because it grants better performance, why argue that it's a waste of time? The performance alone is reason enough to do it. Who cares if it takes time. C# isn't the end-all and if it wasn't for Novell it'd be used far less than it already is.

[pro4never]

Originally Posted by bone-you

So because you have a lot of resources, use bad practices and inefficient languages to accomplish complex tasks because.. you can? Goes back to my original arguments I made long ago. I can make a CO server out of mIRC scripting.. doesn't mean I should. If you're not going to make it the best you can make it, why make it? Why be ok with mediocrity? If you CAN do better, why not DO it? If someone wants to try a new language because it grants better performance, why argue that it's a waste of time? The performance alone is reason enough to do it. Who cares if it takes time. C# isn't the end-all and if it wasn't for Novell it'd be used far less than it already is.

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't implying that furthering your skills and making things efficient isn't a good thing... but lets face it. We're talking about conquer private servers here...

If your goal is to learn to code efficiently and learn everything you can about programing then YES, you should be learning C++ (as well as a hell of a lot of other stuff) as it's an industry standard and is very useful knowledge.

On the other hand, if your goal is to create a 'good' private server for conquer then arguments such as time commitment come into play. As Lateralus was saying, creating a fully fledged pserver in C++ is going to take you a HELL of a lot more time than in C# (unless your C++ knowledge is already rather extensive) and I'm not even taking into account the massive amount of (generally poor) examples all over the forum.

Obviously efficiency is important... but we're talking about a conquer private server here. If that's your goal then, forgive my ignorance but who cares if it uses say.. 10 mb more ram if it works the way it was intended, is stable and took you possibly months less time to get to a playable state. I never once said you SHOULD use more resources just because you can but using them as an argument to instead dedicate large amounts of extra time to a project which is never going to be strained when it comes to resources between the two (if coded efficiently).

Anyways, sorry. I have no desire to have this devolve into a language war.

[bone-you]

Originally Posted by pro4never

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't implying that furthering your skills and making things efficient isn't a good thing... but lets face it. We're talking about conquer private servers here...

If your goal is to learn to code efficiently and learn everything you can about programing then YES, you should be learning C++ (as well as a hell of a lot of other stuff) as it's an industry standard and is very useful knowledge.

On the other hand, if your goal is to create a 'good' private server for conquer then arguments such as time commitment come into play. As Lateralus was saying, creating a fully fledged pserver in C++ is going to take you a HELL of a lot more time than in C# (unless your C++ knowledge is already rather extensive) and I'm not even taking into account the massive amount of (generally poor) examples all over the forum.

Obviously efficiency is important... but we're talking about a conquer private server here. If that's your goal then, forgive my ignorance but who cares if it uses say.. 10 mb more ram if it works the way it was intended, is stable and took you possibly months less time to get to a playable state. I never once said you SHOULD use more resources just because you can but using them as an argument to instead dedicate large amounts of extra time to a project which is never going to be strained when it comes to resources between the two (if coded efficiently).

Anyways, sorry. I have no desire to have this devolve into a language war.

Then again, everyone starts somewhere. If you start to make a CO server in C++, it can evolve into you doing work elsewhere in C++ instead of other languages because now you have some understanding of it. I don't get why people only stick to what they know and make up reason not to expand. I've used BASIC, VB, Java, C#, C++ and am still eager to learn more languages. There is no end-all language for every situation and limiting yourself to one is well.. limiting yourself. Yes it'll take a lot of time, but what if your goal isn't a server up by tomorrow? Maybe some might justify the extra time to expand their knowledge of programming into something more useful than a RAD language.