P Servers Off-topic

IDivideByZero · 08/08/2010, 12:44

For a fact I could already smell epic cleaning in other thread, let's move it here?

What's fine to talk about in here? Anything somehow related to private servers/development; read: history of servers, current scene's situation, cons of pros of languages usage etc etc.

What's not fine to talk about here? Anything regarding other games(no shit), other conquer-related fields (i.e graphics), recipes for waffles etc.

I'll myself report any completaly senseless/flaming/off-top posts (yea, off top in off top =x)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bone-you

The downfall stems from not enough players per server splitting up the pserver population causing every server to fail. A successful server does not operate with 20 people. That isn't even enough to fill a single guild and the point of CO is guild wars. Everyone being handed server files that can be put up in a matter of a few clicks will cause that to become a reality. Everyone and their brother, sister, aunt, and uncle will want to put up a server because owning a server is oh so glorious. As Warp has said, he takes pride in his server even if it has no people on it and that's what they're all aiming for when running a server. A sense of accomplishment or glory, or both, or something else.. and while there is nothing wrong with the accomplishment feeling, having 1000 pservers with 10 players each will be harmful to the pserver scene as opposed to 10 pservers with 1000 players each. Just because you can put a server up doesn't mean you should. Sure, put one up to test on and play with to learn, but leave the server running to people who 1, know how to, 2, can actually do something with it, 3, can make something of it in the long run. I see plenty of posts here of people asking "how do i put server up, i not know how to run". Few words changed here and there, but the questions are all the same. I don't hate on people trying to learn, but they are learning in the wrong order and will 1, get frustrated and close their server down (if it ever goes up), 2, mess it up and be forever fixing it until they close it down, 3, add something totally stupid like 10 reborns with no rhyme or reason behind the system. I could go on and on. I'm only saying what I've seen and I foresee the same happening to CO. The life of pservers might last a bit longer because official is still getting updates, but eventually it will almost die out before official does.

Well, bad thing is.. that's already a matter. If you'll check out xtremetop100 nowadays, maybe first 20 did ever hit 100 folks online, rest of the servers are just running for average 20? 30? What's sad is the fact that 60% of first page are binaries, another 39% - public sources and, SOMETIMES there's a single server or two ran on custom source, yet they almost everytime die quickly due to binaries domination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grillmad

u had fun at mine, didnt u?
while u were there :P

and yea binaries can be fun.
the thing with binaries are they are leeched.
dosnt take long to learn programming enough to make a fine server out of public sources.
but to make ur own from scratch will take some time.

and on this forum, the most peoples are pathetic.

@chickmagnet
like u can do it better?
u cant even setup a simple source

Well, it's prob harsh but yea.. I think running p servers should've been a PRIVELEGE for people that know what's what. It'd require actual effort to be put in, instead of INCREDIBLY HARD reading tutorial attached to every single source.

bone-you · 08/08/2010, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDivideByZero

Well, bad thing is.. that's already a matter. If you'll check out xtremetop100 nowadays, maybe first 20 did ever hit 100 folks online, rest of the servers are just running for average 20? 30? What's sad is the fact that 60% of first page are binaries, another 39% - public sources and, SOMETIMES there's a single server or two ran on custom source, yet they almost everytime die quickly due to binaries domination.

Maybe that will clue people in. Players aren't looking for a way to reborn 100 times, have items that deal guard damage, and the likes. One thing that server owners don't think about is balance. They add an item/quest/feature/whatever for the "wowness" that would come from that and not the ramifications that would come from it tipping the balance. The original goal of any birthing pserver scene is USUALLY to REPLICATE the official version with maybe room for enhancing. Servers have yet to replicate official fully and are focused more on adding features that upset the balance of the server or just plain make it terrible. Asking random server owners to remember the original goal is asking too much though. I'm pretty sure most don't care about the outcome of pservers as long as they can run their own.

Hell. If there was a 100% emulated server with no retarded features and friendly staff (doesn't even have to be helpful, just friendly) I'd even play on that pserver and I haven't played CO in years.

.Beatz · 08/08/2010, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bone-you

Maybe that will clue people in. Players aren't looking for a way to reborn 100 times, have items that deal guard damage, and the likes. One thing that server owners don't think about is balance. They add an item/quest/feature/whatever for the "wowness" that would come from that and not the ramifications that would come from it tipping the balance. The original goal of any birthing pserver scene is USUALLY to REPLICATE the official version with maybe room for enhancing. Servers have yet to replicate official fully and are focused more on adding features that upset the balance of the server or just plain make it terrible. Asking random server owners to remember the original goal is asking too much though. I'm pretty sure most don't care about the outcome of pservers as long as they can run their own.

Hell. If there was a 100% emulated server with no retarded features and friendly staff (doesn't even have to be helpful, just friendly) I'd even play on that pserver and I haven't played CO in years.

I have tried telling this to many many people. They come out with a quest specifically for Tros/Wars and give awesome rewards but don't think about the other classes. I am a P.Server owner myself but mine has not been released yet due to the lack of balance on my server.

Also I think people are working too hard on making and adding items to their server and completely forget about what is needed to help a Private server. Not flashy weapons new armors and new skin edits but hard work done to the server side to make the game playable in a way that will please people. Although these features make the game look good it doesn't mean that the staff are any good or the programmer is any good. Like you say not all these "item/quest/feature/whatever for the "wowness" " But actually working in getting a 100% working server and THEN working on adding new features and making sure that they balance out the game. What I think should happen is for all the sources to be removed from the site and only people that can prove themselves should be able to get their hands on them. Although this would not work because of our rivals 4crappers. This would be a good idea and would make the amount of poorly run/managed private servers drop by about 40% I should think.

@bone-you when my server goes live I will make sure your the first one in lol.

But on a more serious note I hope this discussion will bring to light what people need to do to private servers and should also cast some light on what people are looking for when they select a private server to play.

Also for people who do want to start a private server but don't know where to start.

This has alot of very good tuts that you need to know before starting to make a server.
Also this

Things we have learned in this topic :

Spoiler

**EDIT**
One more thing to add.
People that own private servers who have close friends that own private servers also. Here is an idea for you, team up and work with 1 server.
Friend 1
Friend 2
Friend 3

Friend 1 says to Friend 2 "Hey you wanna play this game I have edited?"
Friend 2 "Yeah sure why not"
Friend 1 "So how do you like it?"
Friend 2 "I love it I am going to make my own!"
Friend 3 "I played and loved I want to make my own as well"

Now you have 3 friends working on the same source and editing it differently. There is no point to this because this same effect keeps going. I could take that example further and call in Friend 1's Friend 9 etc. I don't mind people learning but learning with another friend makes things easier. Please take this into consideration.

I'm going to stop talking now been rambling on way too much.
Peace

IDivideByZero · 08/08/2010, 17:12

Well, there's already enough public resources for X years forward to let the folks have fun with. Closing them infos now ain't a solution.

Imho, most of the servers should've been crushed. Mean, yea I know,

.Beatz · 08/08/2010, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDivideByZero

Well, there's already enough public resources for X years forward to let the folks have fun with. Closing them infos now ain't a solution.

Imho, most of the servers should've been crushed. Mean, yea I know,

Yeah there is definatly enough thats why I said it wouldn't work there is that and then there is 4crappers as well. I was just saying was all

In all fairness some of the server out there (80%) of them should be shut down purely for the fact that the people who run them just copy and paste everything into their server and don't understand the simple things like bools and bytes, int's stuff like that. It's simple stuff that can be learned easily but people just want to be "cool" and run their own server.

Basser · 08/08/2010, 20:14

Mattyc, I do agree, however it has always been like that, honestly, I remember people who could simply edit LOTF sources were coders a long time again, and the real coders were like gods compared to the other members, and they kinda deserved it.
Anyhow, my point is Private Servers is not for "intelligent" people only, however the amount of people who can actually use common sense is increasing very fast, also I have seen a lot of "noobs" growing to sort-of amateur coders, I myself am one of them. When I ran my first servers, they were very enjoyable however I didnt know what a boolean was, never heard of it!
Now again, my point is; People are allowed to run pservers, and we all have to accept that pservers arent something only elite (as in better, not elite pvpers ;p) members can run.

Fish* · 08/08/2010, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattyc2580

Yeah there is definatly enough thats why I said it wouldn't work there is that and then there is 4crappers as well. I was just saying was all In all fairness some of the server out there (80%) of them should be shut down purely for the fact that the people who run them just copy and paste everything into their server and don't understand the simple things like bools and bytes, int's stuff like that. It's simple stuff that can be learned easily but people just want to be "cool" and run their own server.

1. copy paste servers should be shut down is true.
2. servers with staff, that cant run a server like humans and think they just are cool and get respected, because they got the holy status, should also been shut down
3. servers that sell staff, should be shut down

servers should only be open for those who really put efforts into their works.

IDivideByZero · 08/08/2010, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basser

Mattyc, I do agree, however it has always been like that, honestly, I remember people who could simply edit LOTF sources were coders a long time again, and the real coders were like gods compared to the other members, and they kinda deserved it.
Anyhow, my point is Private Servers is not for "intelligent" people only, however the amount of people who can actually use common sense is increasing very fast, also I have seen a lot of "noobs" growing to sort-of amateur coders, I myself am one of them. When I ran my first servers, they were very enjoyable however I didnt know what a boolean was, never heard of it!
Now again, my point is; People are allowed to run pservers, and we all have to accept that pservers arent something only elite (as in better, not elite pvpers ;p) members can run.

But it should be the matter. Where did this trend come from? "Come on, let's spread more releases.. Now everybody, clap your hands and make a server!"

Of course, there should be resources such as hybrid's base or bone's latest refference. Besides that, things such as example NPCs scripts or korvacs' wiki. But c'mon, I don't know who did this, but some big-hearted folks apparently felt like giving really poor 12-year-olds an ability to run a server.

What did it bring? People are wondering if they should've even release bases. Cause those edited bases in leechers hands will hurt the original creator in future; read: somebody that has put an actual effort in the refference.

Also, don't forget that those folks, those leechers and binaries users are gaining solid $ income for no-work.