Monster Defence

[Aceking]

So been playing around with some damages and such, and considering the mobs in patch 5065 can't go above 65535 health. TQ obviously had to nerf damage considerably.

From what I can tell, this wasn't needed in the early days because who was going to do massive amounts of damage when full 1 soc was SUPER rare.
So it looks like they added another field to the monstertype, called 'defence2'.
For the most part, every mob has a value of 10000 in this field.

There are a couple of exceptions.
Guards have a value of 1000.
Gano/Titan etc have 3000.
MetDove has 200 (1000 life normally but still takes a beating hence the extra def)
Satan has 100.

This would certainly explain alot, considering you practically do no damage to Satan.

My question is this, has anybody run into any kind of formula (like from EO source?) that would include this field into the calculations.
Or does anyone have any ideas?

My thinking is this. If 10,000 is the normal value. Then 100 is 1/100th of that.
So you would do 1/100th damage.

So in the case of Satan, who we know has extreme defence.
Someone with about 7k attack, will do roughly 23k damage to him regularly.
Add in this extra defense, and you get about 230.
Which seems about right, I was just kinda wondering if anyone else has come across it.

[cjN93]

Based on how TQ calculates the damage, the higher "defence2" value is, more damage is dealt to monsters. Idk why is that or how they calculate it...

[Spirited]

I've never looked into Defense2, but from what I can tell by reading the , defense2 is used in adjusting weapon damage (lessening it when being attacked). When you transform, defense2 becomes the defense2 of the transformation. If you're a reborn and you're in the 3rd level of your profession, your defense2 becomes 7000.

[Ultimation]

exactly what fang says, Defense2 is applied when you are in transformation. Your normal defense is ignored (as far as i can tell)

[Aceking]

Originally Posted by cjN93

Based on how TQ calculates the damage, the higher "defence2" value is, more damage is dealt to monsters. Idk why is that or how they calculate it...

That can't be correct considering 95% of monsters have a defence2 value of 10,000. Even pheasants.

Originally Posted by Spirited Fang

I've never looked into Defense2, but from what I can tell by reading the , defense2 is used in adjusting weapon damage (lessening it when being attacked). When you transform, defense2 becomes the defense2 of the transformation. If you're a reborn and you're in the 3rd level of your profession, your defense2 becomes 7000.

Originally Posted by Ultimation

exactly what fang says, Defense2 is applied when you are in transformation. Your normal defense is ignored (as far as i can tell)

Well alot of that makes sense, it servers as a multi function value then.
To nerf regular damage, used in transformation, and also for second reborns.

The transformation part makes complete sense. I never even thought of that.

The reborn part makes sense too. Especially based off of the formula I gave in the first post.
First reborns have an extra defense value of 30%.
So based off my formula (Damage * (10000 / defence2))
First reborns do infact have a 30% defence bonus.
Same would go for second reborns, except theirs would be 5000 if being attacked by non 2nd rb players.

So the same formula must go for regular mobs. 10000 being normal damage, anything less than that and the damage is reduced.
So in the case of the meteor dove, all damage is reduced by 98%.
And in the case of satan, all damage is reduced by 99%.
And guards, all damage is reduced by 90%.

[Yupmoh]

That does make sense indeed, Thought of it differently ;p

[pro4never]

It sounds to me like a damage modifier.


10000 1/1 or full damage dealt
1000 is 1/10 damage dealt
100 is 1/100 damage dealt


That would match up with what fang describes for reborn characters. If they have a defense2 of 7000 then they take 70 percent damage (30 percent reduced damage for being reborn and having lvl 70 promotion)

IIRC TQ does not use decimals at all in their calculations and prefers to use all integer math (faster anyways) so at some point during damage calculations you're multiplying the damage dealt by defense 2 and then dividing by 10,000

[Aceking]

Originally Posted by pro4never

It sounds to me like a damage modifier.


10000 1/1 or full damage dealt
1000 is 1/10 damage dealt
100 is 1/100 damage dealt


That would match up with what fang describes for reborn characters. If they have a defense2 of 7000 then they take 70 percent damage (30 percent reduced damage for being reborn and having lvl 70 promotion)

IIRC TQ does not use decimals at all in their calculations and prefers to use all integer math (faster anyways) so at some point during damage calculations you're multiplying the damage dealt by defense 2 and then dividing by 10,000

Pretty much. Looking at the Defencse2 values in the database, it seems quite accurate.
So yea, 100 is 1/100, 5000 is 1/2 dmg, etc etc

[cjN93]

Originally Posted by Aceking

Pretty much. Looking at the Defencse2 values in the database, it seems quite accurate.
So yea, 100 is 1/100, 5000 is 1/2 dmg, etc etc

Therefore, isn't my statement right? Higher the Defense2, higher the damage dealt to monsters? If 10000/1 = normal damage, would 20000/1 = normal damage * 2? I have a valid proof, if you want, I can show you either.

[pro4never]

Originally Posted by cjN93

Therefore, isn't my statement right? Higher the Defense2, higher the damage dealt to monsters? If 10000/1 = normal damage, would 20000/1 = normal damage * 2? I have a valid proof, if you want, I can show you either.

Yes, it's a damage multiplier to artificially increase or reduce damage dealt to the target in question.

[Aceking]

Originally Posted by cjN93

Therefore, isn't my statement right? Higher the Defense2, higher the damage dealt to monsters? If 10000/1 = normal damage, would 20000/1 = normal damage * 2? I have a valid proof, if you want, I can show you either.

I'm sorry, you are correct.
I read your post wrong and took it as the higher the defense2 value, the higher the defense.

My apologies

[drakejoe67]

From what I know this is correct, cause guards only take 1% of normal damage.
Make 10000 = 100%, 1,0000.

I am curious of what you're going to use this for, I'd find a way to balance the damage knowing the HP is capped myself. but if you want to make it as authentic as TQ then I do understand. Calculations are done server sided afterall.

So for calculations I would make it:
Damage = dmg * (Mob.Defence2 / 10000);

I believe they have it like this because they can't use comma in their database, or because of they built Conquer. So they made it have a huge sum up to 10000 to allow like 0,0001% at minimum.

[Aceking]

Originally Posted by drakejoe67

From what I know this is correct, cause guards only take 1% of normal damage.
Make 10000 = 100%, 1,0000.

I am curious of what you're going to use this for, I'd find a way to balance the damage knowing the HP is capped myself. but if you want to make it as authentic as TQ then I do understand. Calculations are done server sided afterall.

So for calculations I would make it:
Damage = dmg * (Mob.Defence2 / 10000);

I believe they have it like this because they can't use comma in their database, or because of they built Conquer. So they made it have a huge sum up to 10000 to allow like 0,0001% at minimum.

Thats exactly how I have it