C&D

[d3ltaaaa]

Whats the best way to hide yourself from activison and not get a c&d? (Besides being in another country) i highly doubt "most" of the cheat devs for this community had bad opsec

[GfuelInMyVeins]

Originally Posted by d3ltaaaa

Whats the best way to hide yourself from activison and not get a c&d? (Besides being in another country) i highly doubt "most" of the cheat devs for this community had bad opsec

only take crypto
most of these devs takes card payments which all it takes is 1 subpoena request to get your info from them.

same goes with their domain and servers, use ones that take crypto (xmr is the best for privacy, but i would think ltc, eth or btc would be good enough)

[Agrezion]

Originally Posted by GfuelInMyVeins

only take crypto
most of these devs takes card payments which all it takes is 1 subpoena request to get your info from them.

Most of these devs use stripe holders that do the payment processing for a fee.

[GfuelInMyVeins]

Originally Posted by Agrezion

Most of these devs use stripe holders that do the payment processing for a fee.

true some might do

even then if the person processing the payments for you knows who you are then your screwed, cause i doubt they will protect you when they have activisions lawyers coming at them lol

[TransPrincess]

Originally Posted by d3ltaaaa

Whats the best way to hide yourself from activison and not get a c&d? (Besides being in another country) i highly doubt "most" of the cheat devs for this community had bad opsec

Discord sellers have the worst opsec on the internet, legitimately so many of them sell accounts to you with their full name and real email.

As for cheat sellers, probably there is a variety of ways that activision can find that data. They have infinite funds and I don't think they're gonna search in legal ways to find you, like for L1ney for example they just used the doxbin post to send him a C&D. Since he's from Russia though he can just ignore it. At least that's what I heard, dunno if accurate/true.

EngineOwning for example, Activsion claimed to contact Valve to hand over the real names of everyone in a certain Steam group. Whether or not Valve complied is unknown.

[Agrezion]

Originally Posted by GfuelInMyVeins

true some might do

even then if the person processing the payments for you knows who you are then your screwed, cause i doubt they will protect you when they have activisions lawyers coming at them lol

I don't think going after those that just facilitate the payment is going to yield any success but not living in the US does seem to be the best option for cheat makers. The highest court in the European Union for example ruled that just reading and writing to the games memory does not count as copyright infringement. And loss compensation is nearly impossible to proof if you are not botting the game.

[MSK Crime]

Originally Posted by Agrezion

I don't think going after those that just facilitate the payment is going to yield any success but not living in the US does seem to be the best option for cheat makers. The highest court in the European Union for example ruled that just reading and writing to the games memory does not count as copyright infringement. And loss compensation is nearly impossible to proof if you are not botting the game.

Being sued in the US is the easiest way for them to get a default judgment

They will find ways to enforce it in EU despite that, the issue is that most cheat makers avoid going in court and don't take time building a real defense and get good lawyers

[Agrezion]

Originally Posted by MSK Crime

Being sued in the US is the easiest way for them to get a default judgment

They will find ways to enforce it in EU despite that, the issue is that most cheat makers avoid going in court and don't take time building a real defense and get good lawyers

Despite that I don't like the EU I don't think there is any way for them to enforce it since no foreign court ruling is accepted. They would need to go through the legal process in the EU or specifically in the country of the defendant.

Rebranding to a new provider is still much easier and cheaper for every dev.

[GfuelInMyVeins]

Originally Posted by Agrezion

I don't think going after those that just facilitate the payment is going to yield any success but not living in the US does seem to be the best option for cheat makers. The highest court in the European Union for example ruled that just reading and writing to the games memory does not count as copyright infringement. And loss compensation is nearly impossible to proof if you are not botting the game.

does not matter even if they know they wont win...
its the process, drawn out proceedings could bankrupt someone way before it even gets to a trial, while to Activision the money is nothing and worth it to them for their "PR"

+ there are plenty of cases out there which say otherwise, multiple cases in the UK against gta cheats which said it was copyright infringement + ontop of that i remember seeing one where they also found liable for helping / making other users violate the tos of the game.

then also there is also destiny lawsuits against aimjunkies and some others, which i believe the court also agreed with the game companies that its copyright infringement.

and tbh at the end of the day they have way more money, and will win 99.9% of the time.

Originally Posted by MSK Crime

Being sued in the US is the easiest way for them to get a default judgment

They will find ways to enforce it in EU despite that, the issue is that most cheat makers avoid going in court and don't take time building a real defense and get good lawyers

you know how much money that would cost to defend lmao?
no cheat maker is winning that.

[d3ltaaaa]

Originally Posted by TransPrincess

Discord sellers have the worst opsec on the internet, legitimately so many of them sell accounts to you with their full name and real email.

As for cheat sellers, probably there is a variety of ways that activision can find that data. They have infinite funds and I don't think they're gonna search in legal ways to find you, like for L1ney for example they just used the doxbin post to send him a C&D. Since he's from Russia though he can just ignore it. At least that's what I heard, dunno if accurate/true.

EngineOwning for example, Activsion claimed to contact Valve to hand over the real names of everyone in a certain Steam group. Whether or not Valve complied is unknown.

Thanks for the info, i myself am pretty good with my opsec and not giving out info but im thinking on if strictly crypto payments with nothing online that can be traced back to me would be good? And yeah best option would probably be to live somewhere in saudi arabia like FFF but im not as fortunate.

[TransPrincess]

Originally Posted by d3ltaaaa

Thanks for the info, i myself am pretty good with my opsec and not giving out info but im thinking on if strictly crypto payments with nothing online that can be traced back to me would be good? And yeah best option would probably be to live somewhere in saudi arabia like FFF but im not as fortunate.

Crypto payments will make it a lot harder to find you, there are ways to accept card payments too without being discovered but its a long process and the hardest part is finding someone you can trust to handle that and take the fallout for you, e.g having a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia or Russia.

The issue with crypto though, is if you take that route you're going to limit your reach quite a lot. For other games its fine but for COD, there is a lot more "kid" cheaters who have no idea how crypto works and rather just use PayPal or card payments.

Also if you advertising on Discord then always use a VPN and fresh account OR I would also recommend purchasing an aged Discord account that was used in the past + VPN usage and only login on the browser, it might make it harder to trace back to you if there is already someone Indians history on it. The Discord app itself is tracking so much about you that you should only use it on the browser if you go down the re-seller route.

[L1ney]

Originally Posted by TransPrincess

Crypto payments will make it a lot harder to find you, there are ways to accept card payments too without being discovered but its a long process and the hardest part is finding someone you can trust to handle that and take the fallout for you, e.g having a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia or Russia.

The issue with crypto though, is if you take that route you're going to limit your reach quite a lot. For other games its fine but for COD, there is a lot more "kid" cheaters who have no idea how crypto works and rather just use PayPal or card payments.

Also if you advertising on Discord then always use a VPN and fresh account OR I would also recommend purchasing an aged Discord account that was used in the past + VPN usage and only login on the browser, it might make it harder to trace back to you if there is already someone Indians history on it. The Discord app itself is tracking so much about you that you should only use it on the browser if you go down the re-seller route.

all that just to end up being detected instead of getting c&d lol, future "sellers" are scared of the wrong thing it seems

[lukedorian]

Originally Posted by d3ltaaaa

Thanks for the info, i myself am pretty good with my opsec and not giving out info but im thinking on if strictly crypto payments with nothing online that can be traced back to me would be good? And yeah best option would probably be to live somewhere in saudi arabia like FFF but im not as fortunate.

But why are you interested in this information? Are you a cheat dev, you thinking into offering services ir smth?
Kinda weird place to be asking this kinda stuff

[Agrezion]

Originally Posted by GfuelInMyVeins

does not matter even if they know they wont win...
its the process, drawn out proceedings could bankrupt someone way before it even gets to a trial, while to Activision the money is nothing and worth it to them for their "PR"

+ there are plenty of cases out there which say otherwise, multiple cases in the UK against gta cheats which said it was copyright infringement + ontop of that i remember seeing one where they also found liable for helping / making other users violate the tos of the game.

then also there is also destiny lawsuits against aimjunkies and some others, which i believe the court also agreed with the game companies that its copyright infringement.

and tbh at the end of the day they have way more money, and will win 99.9% of the time.

you know how much money that would cost to defend lmao?
no cheat maker is winning that.

Still, strictly speaking for the EU, the ECJ ruled that it is not copyright infringement, and as the highest possible court, it set a precedent similar to some previous rulings. If a lawsuit follows, the first-instance domestic court is going check if the ruling of the ECJ "eu law" can be applied to this case. If so there can only be a appeal or revision.

In the case of Sony for example Sony mostly won in the first instance court. Both parties send in an appeal and the higher regional court rejected Sony´s copyright claims. In the federal court of justice, they rejected the revision of Sony.

That's my yapping of legal understanding from articles and videos I watched.

There are probably ways on how they can go around that. The game they ruled for was both single and multiplayer. But they can probably find ways claiming other shit.

Legal fights aren't exactly the same like in the US in terms of cost and compensation. And cheat devs aren't really poor without any budget am I right? It really depends on risk and reward for the legal trouble. No trouble at all is of course the best option. How you can achieve it is up to you. Also for further cases, the ECJ ruling doesn't apply anymore to the UK for obvious reasons.

In the end its better PR when the US court gives them the right for a 6.7 million USD lawsuit for a guy living in Indian slum not giving a single fuck about it.

> Defendant never responded to the suit.

Chad

[d3ltaaaa]

Originally Posted by TransPrincess

Crypto payments will make it a lot harder to find you, there are ways to accept card payments too without being discovered but its a long process and the hardest part is finding someone you can trust to handle that and take the fallout for you, e.g having a friend who lives in Saudi Arabia or Russia.

The issue with crypto though, is if you take that route you're going to limit your reach quite a lot. For other games its fine but for COD, there is a lot more "kid" cheaters who have no idea how crypto works and rather just use PayPal or card payments.

Also if you advertising on Discord then always use a VPN and fresh account OR I would also recommend purchasing an aged Discord account that was used in the past + VPN usage and only login on the browser, it might make it harder to trace back to you if there is already someone Indians history on it. The Discord app itself is tracking so much about you that you should only use it on the browser if you go down the re-seller route.

Yeah but i mean crypto only for resellers, i won't be selling anything through card payments only selling through resellers in which they can do whatever they want. Also thanks for the info about discord im looking to move away from it and move to a better and more care free platform like TG

Originally Posted by L1ney

all that just to end up being detected instead of getting c&d lol, future "sellers" are scared of the wrong thing it seems

Are you talking about me? Even though you know nothing about me nor my past 🙂

Originally Posted by lukedorian

But why are you interested in this information? Are you a cheat dev, you thinking into offering services ir smth?
Kinda weird place to be asking this kinda stuff

I am a dev looking forward to go public in the next year, im mostly interested in opsec since it's better to be safe than sorry and i know that you guys might have some insight into staying anonymous, so there's no harm in asking.