[user1] xxx: I don¡¯t think there are many people involved in circumventing PSN access in /this/ channel [ "application/x-i-5-ticket" reason=40 > PSN error 80710101 ]
[user2] talk about network stuff?
[user2] nice
[user2] i just finished decrypting 100% of all psn functions
[user3]
[user2] you can forget all the history wiper and log remove apps
[user2] theres a independant check
[user2] which transfers all games and their playtime
[user2] every time you login
[user2] you can modify it like the firmware version tho
[user2] it looks like:
[user2]
[user2] aswell they can detect backups this way
[user1] hash is eboot.bin to check for version?
[user2] if you use a backup it will look like this:
[user2] [user4] user2, is that in data sent to a0.[CC].np.communication.playstation.net
[user2] sec lemme check
[user4] im still collecting all the data
[user2] updptl.de.np.community.playstation.net/
[user2] thats the server
[user3] user2: what about Blu-ray Master Disc/BD Emulator ?
[user3] since, i use those features legitimately
[user2] on debug or retail?
[user2] i didnt check all on debug unit yet
[user2] so no clue if it sends discid for bdemu
[user2] but sony is the biggest spy ever lol
[user2] they collect so much data
[user1] true
[user2] all connected devices return values sent to sony server
[user2] example:
[user3] user2: Debug models of course
[user2] >32¡± TFT-TVOEMreleasecex
[user4] i cannot find my PS3 connect to host with ¡®updptl¡¯ in the name
[user2] returns tv, fw version, fw type, console model
[user2] also i found data it collects when i had usb device attached etc etc
[user2] so if they ever sue someone for psn stuff, they will be sued themselves as most of the data they collect is just not legal
[user4] user2, at what time does it connect to that host?
[user4] during the PSN logon?
[user2] sec i check
[user5] user2 how can you modify that data?
[user6] user2: do you now know enough to wipe all traces so that people who never had their consoles on the internet can avoid sending this information now?
[user4] no DNS request for a host with ¡®updptl¡¯ in the name in my packet captures :-
[user2] @user5: it sents directly after user profile load and sometimes; ¨C it seams random, just when u play a game or anything
[user4] ohh
[user2] @xxxx: we could modify the data via proxy between the tunnels, like delete all data between the xml tags or somehow
[user5] oh so its not on the ps3 hdd itself?
[user6] user2: aha, so this information is actually encrypted?
[user2] ya
[user2] the list is stored online
[user2] and updated when u login psn and random
[user5] damn
[user6] but where is it stored before that? I have never been online with my ps3¡*
[user6] so it must be somewhere
[user5] was hoping it would be on the ps3 hdd
[user5] then lock it or so
[user1] the only avoidance is block all *.playstation.net
[user2] MAYBE ¨C i rly dont know ¨C it doesnt save it at all on hdd
[user2] so only transfers the games and stuff in one ps3 session when you go online
[user2] so if u have ps3 offline and play a game, then shutdown and turn on again
[user2] it MAY not transfer update
[user2] cuz i didnt find any info for that list on hdd
[user2] it could be that its used for online playtime or psn logged in playtime
[user2] aswell you should never ever install a CFW from someone unknown
[user2] cuz its way too easy todo scamming at this point
[user2] for example:
[user2] [redacted plain text code, includes false credit card number]
[user2] sent as plaintext
[user3] uh
[user3] did you censor that card?
[user2] ya its fake
[user3] good
[user1] wow, plaintext :S
[user5] plaintext wow
[user3] im never putting in my details like that
[user2] ya is all fake lol
[user2] i never used cc on ps3
[user2] normally you ATLEAST enccrypt the securtity code, even if its ssl
[user5] id hope sony would do such in a safe manner
[user5] psn cards probably plain text to then
[user2] fake certs are known since years as vuln so companies encrypt such data twice normally
[user2] but hey its sony ¨C> its a feature
[user5] lol
[user7] lol
[user5] yeah if you go public with your info they either remove the store or psn all together
[user5] as an update
[user6] I doubt it
[user7] from all the actions they¡¯ve taken the past years, we can only deduce that Sony don¡¯t care about their customers
[user2] impossible
[user7]
[user2] they wont update their whole psn lol
[user6] but this should really get out there, but I guess it¡¯s on psx-scene.com in a matter of minutes already
[user5] 3.60 removal of psn
[user2] i know a few guys who worked @ sony¡¯s psn backend. just when the ps3 was released we talked bout the first psn, at this time ALL was http and unencrypted. so you could see userpass etc plain. i asked em why is it that way. lame answer was ¡°we thought it was adressed.¡± ¨C lol
[user2] sony qa ¨C> trainees
[user8] that fits nicely into the ¡°#define rand() 4¡å mentality.
[user2] yep
[user3] or more of
[user3] ECDSA_PRIVATE_KEY privateKey;
[user2] lol
[user3] and PrivateKey is in a header file
[user3] and it¡¯s static
[user2] xD
[user3] and ECDSA_RANDOM in a header file
[user3] and so on
[user2] another funny function i found is regarding psn downloads
[user2] its when a pkg game is requested from the store
[user2] in the url itself you can define if you get the game free or not. requires some modification in hashes and so on tho
[user3] ..
[user2] is like
[user8]
[user3] my god
[user2] drm
ff
[user5] lol
[user2] lol
[user1]
[user8] well, that¡¯s one way to offload the server.
[user2] still wondering when the big ban wave arrives
[user1] if they ban everyone, even using backups legally in their country (but in their opinion a TOS violation), it will be a huge tsunami, not a wave
[user10] ask ur friends
[user2] prolly they take it like it is now, unstoppable anyways
[user2] new firmware to ban all further actions and done
[user4] an open psn would be nice
[user4] even if it was just a player matching service
[user2] ya
a PSN host by the community
[user3] that actually could be perhaps possible
[user3] if you can get auth working
[user3] and all
[user3] a new np environment
[user2] the friend list management is easiest
[user2] simple jabber server
[user11] don¡¯t some games use their own servers?
[user1] some use p2p
[user11] which check from the official psn servers whether you¡¯re logged in and who you are
[user2] imagine the traffic load
[user2] whod pay this xD
[user11] yes, but even p2p games do use publisher or sony provided servers for matchmaking
[user3] NpCommerce2
[user12] I am getting behind everything on doing my security analysis
[user12] started a couple months ago monitoring SSL stuff, and theen got distracted with blackops and havent pursed it, seems a lot of people are starting to take interest in it now
[user2] and regarding matchmaking and lobby systems
[user2] the functions built in firmware and/or game
[user2] how would you answer them
[user2] the server side code we dont know of
[user12] some stuff appears to be in lv2 and not in sprx for network stuff
[user2] so we can not create proper answers
[user12] you can try to analyze the protocol and say ¡°if X then Y¡± type responses the problems come up when you get something you haveent seen before
[user12] that was done with counterstrike for example so that people could cheat
[user12] so its not entirely impossible although it is time consuming
[user12] sometimes its happy accidents, reason code 21 means bad cipher, 51 bad firmware version ¨C for x-i-5 tickets for example
[user11] wasn¡¯t cs/hl server software available for anyone to download even back then?
[user6] anyone found a way to change DVD region on ps3 yet, btw?
[user11] for psn you can¡¯t even get binaries for the server side
[user5] user2 i remember some months ago you made a psntool with a psn messenger in it but not yet functional is that still being worked on?
[user12] but for stuff like that the ticket has to exist on the psn side of things because if I send my ticket to a vendor server they will validate it against psn and if its not there it will fail
[user1] xxx: wasn¡¯t syscall 0¡Á363 0¡Á19004 3rd byte usefull for that?
[user2] @xxxx: at this time i could finish the tool yes but im not sure if it is useful at all
[user12] xxxx: no but you can monitor traffic, even send some ¡°bad¡± things and watch the responses¡* I discovered x-i-5 reason code 21 by accident, I did not force my proxy to mirror the cipher that the ps3 presented
[user2] i mean why would someone want to chat with a someone on ps3
[user2] while any1 anyway have msn/icq/aol
[user12] know this, sony in realtime, monitors all messages over psn
[user12] I verified that, its part of my privacy threats thing I am doing
[user5] ok too bad id like the psn messenger on pc
[user12] the realtime monitoring is a bit bothersome to me
[user6] user1: such information is quite useless to me, as I¡¯m not that into the technical stuff was more hoping someone had an easy way to do it.. like a DVD region changer or something.
[user2] @user12: the realtime jabber monitoring as most likely for realtime censor of messages
[user12] they appear to have at the very least keywords they look for, not sure just how invasive the whole thing is, but ¡*
[user12] well they have osme odd things in there
[user11] yeah they have that dumb automatic word filter
[user4] the censor word-list is ridiculous
[user13] psn messenger would be helpful, just yesterday was killed 2 times when typing response on the message + its so slow loading
[user12] a psn code that is not really valid if you sent that via email it becomes valid but you cant add funds to your wallet. The fact that emailing that code to someone makes it valid for you is odd ¡* why monitor that code?
[user11] which makes it much more difficult to have a sensible conversation in languages other than english
[user12] why change its state on sending it?
[user12] the censor words in home is on your system, it downloads a dict list of words
[user12] an empty file resolves that
[user2] tryin to find my jabber logs¡* >.<
[user12] so it only censors on receipt not on transmission
[user12] dunno how the other stuff does it
[user12] mostly because I have yet to look
[user12] now you have me curious I am gonna go redo my network a little bit to start monitoring again
[user2] btw aswell a reason AGAINST pc to ps3 messenger is spam
[user2] cuz there actually is an easy way to get userlists
[user2] would fuck psn pretty hard if some skiddy releases a spam app
[user2] the highscore and matchmaking lobbies you can request per game id and get user mails for psn
[user13] ugh, yeah
[user2] huge list + spam app == sux
[user3] argghhhh
[user3] why do my trophies never sync to np
[user2] anyway sony just would have to open a port on the jabber server, so you could login with icq
[user5] lol
[user2] and we all know what happens if cool homebrew arrives, remember open remote play [user2] sony just releases an official tool lol
[user12] thing is the more people do things and discuss what they do and explain how to do it the more likely sony will lock down psn in the future
[user2] psn is a core feature of ps3
[user12] making it harder and harder to do anything, like using older firmwares to log in, that will probably be the first to go away
[user2] they would be sued like with otheros
[user5] yeah but they also blocked open remote play
[user11] user12: that already went away, didn¡¯t it
[user12] if you are not running current firmware you do not have a right to psn
[user11] user12: even for debug users
[user12] not really, not yet anyway
[user12] 3.56 did not break it but the next release might
[user12] especially because it stops people running backups and other stuff on psn
[user11] well i mean 3.41
[user2] ya would be all possible for them
[user12] not sure what, if anything, changed with 3.41
[user11] you used to be able to sign in on debug 3.41 until someone released that psn enabler hack
[user2] one way more difficult than the other so i think they first will go on with backup ban on psn
[user11] even though 3.42 and 3.50 had already been released
[user2] via playlists and stuff i meantioned before
[user2] a secure way to fix it would require firmware and server update tho
[user2] wondering what prevents em of this way
[user12] I just got a new ps3 yesterday, has 3.40, gonna put 3.55 on it and do my work [user12] I *might* try with 3.40 and see if I can do enough of my work, that would make it somewhat harder though
[user1] banwave possibly, new FW + plus they still need to fix that 3.56-1st/2nd harddrive exchange bug in the next version
[user12] because my work is specialized and very limited in scopee
[user2] the psn has 45 environments all working independant
[user2] prolly that is the reason
[user2] we could just change to another environment
[user2] and they also need to have an eye to the official developers which use environments too
[user2] and the qa
[user2] which needs to work with older firmware sometimes
[user2] so they cant update all environments and block all
[user4] probably so much ITIL process management so they can¡¯t fart without a work request [user2] hehe
[user12] the way that people are getting on now is to change the user agent in the login request, well x-platform-version specifically. but if the x-platform-passphrase changes in how its constructed then its easy to detect people trying to use an older firmware
[user2] they can even without the xi
[user2] as the firmware version is in a lot more requests than the auth
[user4] version is sent to the getprof servers also
[user2] ppl change only the xi one atm
[user4] and ena.
[user2] but its in netstart, xi, game starts
[user12] I understand that part of it, I was just talking about x-i-5 auth stuff
[user2] many many functions send the real fw version
[user2] but only xi5 is checked
[user12] I realize that many functions send the fw version, anything that uses libhttp.sprx does
[user2] ya
[user12] remember I have been donig this for a couple months
[user12] even wrote software that lets me do the ssl parts on the fly instead of to a fixed server, mirroring the CN of the real server
[user4] what is the data in xi5 at 0xC0 ->EOF ? some crypto/salt ?
[user4] luckily they use CN=*.*.np.community.playstation.net which saves a bit of hassle, just calling openssl from your app user12 ?
[user12] openssl libs
[user12] not the app itself
[user12] and I do it for *ALL* ssl connections in realtime
[user12] so even if you use the webbrowser it will generate certs for that too
[user4] nice tool you made
[user12] it is similar in function to ¡°sslsniff¡± but mine works with the ps3 and logs correctly
[user2] for the first i think ppl should use a replace of all 3.5.5 and 355 strings but regarding to the user agent, else psn wont load
[user2] user12 which certs u use?
[user2] only 05 i guess ?
[user2] CA i mean sorry
[user12] user2: I use them all
[user12] there is a place that the firmware version is in lv2 that is not a ¡°string¡±
[user12] its ¡®decimal¡¯ ¡°035500¡å not sure if its 32 or 64 bit in size though,
[user2] btw u know the login url for auth is like:
[user12] but that is not the ascii 3 its the decimal value
[user2] &serviceid=IV0001-NPXS01001_00&loginid=MYMAIL&password=MYPASS&first= true&consoleid=MYID
[user12] I have complete logs for the auth stuff
[user2] did u already change the ¡°first¡± param?
[user2] i wonder what it does
[user12] first=true is only there if you had not previously loggged into psn
[user2] ah ok
[user12] its missing if you were previously logged in but you need a new ticet
[user12] ticket
[user14] hi
[user14] please not connect
[user14] to external dns ip
[user14] with your ps3
[user14] your passwords and email and other data is revealed on the external side
[user12] which you need for each service id that you need one for, meaning if you sync trophies you get 1 ticket, when you play a game you get a 2nd ticket, when you watch netflix you get a 3rd
[user14] spam people can use this info
[user12] most likely if they are mapping that host
[user12] if its just the firmware check then no, because there is nothing private sent in that http (cleartext) request
[user12] so it depends on what hosts they are looking at
[user14] to start a spamming attack
[user2] hm didnt check that ticket stuff yet
[user2] as when i used a ticket
[user2] for a test POST
[user2] i worked with 1 only
[user2] and always worked
[user2] prolly many to identify the service
[user12] the ticket is sent to say a game, netflix, etc. anythibng that uses psn. That way you do not send credentials to anyone but sony
[user2] if its like u say then this is another vuln lol
[user2] cuz as i tested if always first ticket works
[user2] you could hijack a session
[user2] the ticket and session i used didnt timeout
[user2] and if it always creates a new ticket as u say
[user2] there would be many sessions
[user12] I also haave yet to monitor how long the tickets are valid for, I know that the ps3 does not reuse them between apps but that could just be the way its coded (they might be valid even though a normal ps3 will never reuse)
[user2] for one user open
[user12] it may invalidate old ones on issuance of a new, I never looked
[user12] I just know that I saw it getting one at app launch
[user2] hm wierd with the tickets
[user2] i know the ticket is build outta few params
[user2] the serial
[user2] the userid
[user2] issueddare
[user2] service id
[user2] online id
[user2] many many
[user12] I also know that the server that does the x-i-5 tickets is a bit more tight about the ciphers than any other system in sonyland
[user12] if sony is watching this channel they should know that running an older version of apache on a redhat server with known vulnerabilities is not wise, especially when that server freely reports its version and its the auth server
[user2] its not old version, they just didnt update the banner
[user12] I consider apache 2.2.15 old
[user2] which server
[user12] it also has known vulnerabilities
[user12] auth.np.ac.playstation.net
[user2] ya the displayed version u see via banner is not the real version
[user12] unless they updated it in the last couple weeks
[user12] I doubt that since its not trivial to change that
[user12] its a bit more invasive than just setting it to Prod like they do on their other servers
[user11] you know, watching this conversation makes me think about whether it was a good idea after all to buy a couple of games from psn using a visa card
[user2] its just backported security patches
[user11] i did remove all my info after downloading the games though
[user12] that is just psn not the store
[user12] they are running linux 2.6.9-2.6.24 on that box too
[user12] that too is old
[user2] lol @ buying on store
[user11] yes, but their general attitude towards security just seems¡*ugh
[user2] sony wont misuse the info i bet xD
[user2] but just prevent using cfw¡¯s of unknown ppl
[user2] even better from ALL ppl
[user2] make ur own lol
[user12] so I doubt that they are spoofing the network stack on that box as well
[user12] my guess is that it really is undermaintained ¡°it works why change anything¡±
[user2] could be
[user12] sony really should update that stuff to something more current
[user2] ya
[user2] but imagine
[user2] psn == 45 environments
[user2] and for example
[user2] every env has 50 subdomains
[user2] to external machines
[user2] its rly rly huge
[user2] who wants to do this xD
[user2] ppl r lazy
[user2] wont change
?
