Java in server development

[Viscount S]

Originally Posted by © Haydz

I would much prefer not to see any java related code.

Why? It seems that a select few have a contingency to hold Java code in contempt. To keep this topic in alignment with this forum, please answer my question with regards to a CO2 PServer.

I would like to hear anyone's thoughts or ideas either way about this.

[© Haydz]

I don't really see why a thread needed to be created for something like this, unless it's an open discussion, in which case I don't see the need to directly target it at me.

I just plain straight out don't like the language, I could point you to so many points made by Hybrid (InfamousNoone), on the matter. But I really would prefer not to, Im sure you could find them yourself if you really wish to raise an argument.

Its personal specification nothing more; You can come back with the multi-platform, argument if you wish, my response would be C++ or, preferably the fact that I never intended to develop, or host anything C# related on a non-windows platform.

It's not as though, I don't think the language is capable, I just don't like it. I'd consider netbeans to be the best/optimum IDE for it, and even that is just awful.

I'm going to be straight up and honest; just about everything I know/have learn't has been courtesy of Hybrid. To be honest I pretty much do believe anything he says (gullable FTW). In the case regarding java, he's not the biggest fan, In turn I follow that sentiment towards the argument. I have however attempted it myself and cannot say I enjoyed the experience.

[Viscount S]

Originally Posted by © Haydz

I don't really see why a thread needed to be created for something like this.

I just plain straight out don't like the language, I could point you to so many points made by Hybrid (InfamousNoone). Throughout EPvP on the matter. But I really would prefer not to, Im sure you could find them yourself if you really wish to raise an argument.

It personal specification nothing more; You can come back with the "multi-platform", argument if you wish, my response would be C++ or, preferably the fact that I never intended to develop, or host anything C# related on a non-windows platform.

It's not as though, I don't think the language is capable, I just don't like it. I'd consider netbeans to be the best/optimum IDE for it, and even that is just awful.

I made a topic because I felt that it would have been considered off topic for the thread I pulled that quote from, and I am interested in other people's opinions as well.

My point wasn't to raise an argument, and I would never reply with only the WORA spiel, like most uninformed Java programmers do (usually including something about Linux servers costing less). I was merely interested, specifically because you did not provide a reason for disliking the language (but saying that it's just a "personal specification" doesn't quite give me the answer that I had hoped for either).

I'm not aware if Visual Studio offers support for other than .NET languages, but I've really enjoyed using C++ with NetBeans and its available plugins. I've only used Visual Studio 2008 a few times, and I've noticed that NetBeans's Swing GUI Builder is more pleasurable to work with than Visual Studio's form builder. NetBeans also offers import assistance. I have no idea if Visual Studio includes that, as I haven't seen such a feature while working with it in the past. But I do have a few issues with NetBeans. And I've been meaning to try IntelliJ IDEA.

I'll look at Hybrid's posts, thanks © Haydz.

[© Haydz]

My intention was never to create any sort of dislike or conflict between the two of us, forgive me if my post was hastily delivered in the slightest. I'm a little grouchy due to lack of sleep.

So yeah, I apologize for that. I'll probably try to have a proper discussion about the matter when I've had a bit of sleep.

In regards to my post in the other topic, I'm no expert on java so I probably couldn't rate the standard of java programming to be honest either.

If it's an open discussion, I wouldn't expect much out of this supposed 'community' to be honest, there's the select few who know what they're talking about, but the rest are kind of hopeless to be honest.

Regarding the '©' in my name, I haven't a clue how that got there, it looks so stupid

[tanelipe]

Changed the title.

[ImFlamedCOD]

I would have to agree with Haydz on this. I have never been a Java fan, I have tired it and worked with it for a short time. I personalty did not like it. I have seen many good programs come from Java. If you want to find out more about it i would suggest talking to Qonquer as there source is written in Java or ChingChong as the Jonquer emulator is open source.(5017 private server) Other than that its comes down to you. Good luck hope this helped you as well.

[Trigorio]

I've worked with Java between 2004 and 2007(Something like that), then I switched over to C#, and I love C# so much more. In a year or so it's time for me to switch to C++ (Because I feel it's something neccessary to know as a good programmer). Reason I like C# so much more is mostly because of the easy user friendly GUI creation and all in all I feel it's very easy to work with Visual Studio C#. C++ will probably be my main language in the future considering I'm going to studdy Computer science civil engineering in university for 5 years.

Edit: Oh yeah will also be having Java as a subject in University, thank *** I got a headstart xD

[ChingChong23]

@Haydz: NetBeans isn't that great, other than for making GUI applications. real IDE's for Java would be IntelliJ IDEA or an Eclipse distribution.

I don't actually know whats with the Java hate on these forums, 95% of servers are written in C# and 90% of them are bad, very bad. even though i dislike the Qonquer server, it's still the #1 Conquer Pserver and is also written in Java.

When me and s.bat were writing Jonquer, we had plans for that to be the next 'CoEmu / LOTF' (both highly popular choices around this community) which both turn people to learn C#. Not only would we have more features, it would be easier to learn, structured better, faster and more stable than others. We got half way or so then lost interest in it. Sometime i will be continuing that and re-writing it using the RedDwarf Server framework (formerly known as Project Darkstar) and it should blow most, if not all servers out of the water.

with the power of CPUs these days, slow languages such as vb6 or python could even manage a stable server with thousands online (as long as it's written alright)

IIRC Hybrid gave the name JProxy because originally it was going to be written in Java, then they scrapped that idea since none of them knew Java well enough.

Also RuneScape (the most popular free online game?) client and servers are written in pure Java (J2SE)

Also reading what Trigorio said about how he loved C# so much more because of the GUI designer. Most people like C#/.net because you download the express IDE and everything in front of you, Java is a little more trickier to begin with for newcomers, visual studio is great, but to choose C# over Java simply because of the IDE/ease of form creation makes your opinion on this topic less respectful, as GUI isn't everything.

[Trigorio]

@Chingchong
So what if runescape is programmed in java?
Runescape is written in java because it was made like 10 years ago... And andrew webber or whatever his name is, made it all by himself before it got big and a staff got hired.....

World of warcraft the most played game ever is partially programmed in C++ and it does not consist of any java, where are you trying to lead with that? The best games ever are sure as hell not made in java.

I think that the C# language is at least as powerful as java is and the GUI creation is a huge plus, why would I then even think about using java over C# unless I'm going on a different platform then Windows?

If you want to know WHY it's better, go google it. There are 100 000 posts on why C# is better then Java and vice versa.

Edit: Also I haven't seen yourself explain as why java would be better then C#. In general Java can't be better then C# and C# can't be better then java because they both have their advantages and disadvantages. So it all comes down to what you are going to program.

I think this post is pretty good.

Originally Posted by njb7ty

Well, I suppose you can search Google for 'C# vs java' and read an article such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...va_and_C_Sharp.

However arguing which is better is best left as an exercise for developers with a lot of experience in both languages rather than those just starting out (If your just starting out, you will not use the advanced features one has over the other).

I think the market will be evenly split between both languages for quite some time. Ideally, as a professional developer you should know both well so you are more employable. For Java, I suggest getting familiar with The Eclipse IDE since its used by the bulk of Java developers. For C#, I suggest you install Visual Studio Express because its used by the bulk of C# developers (and the express version is free).

I suggest you first learn one or the other very very well and good coding practices before learning the other language to avoid mixing the two somewhat different coding styles.

I suggest learning whichever language your friends are using assuming you communicate with them about programming often (so you can help each other). If instead your on your own, I suggest you learn Java. I think you will have an easier time picking up the Object Oriented philosophy than C# because in my opinion Java is more low level coding and C# is more high level coding (ie, the advanced features it can do a lot for you). You should have a good handle on the low level concepts first. In may opinion, once you know Java well, C# is a lot easier to pick up since they are both object oriented and are very similar object oriented languages.

[ChingChong23]

theres many pages on C# vs Java, in the end nobody wins.

Also your talking about RuneScape Classic which was written 10 years ago, 5 years ago he released RuneScape 2 which since then has had 3-4 major changes and is still written entirely in Java (they have over 100 developers) and millions of cash.

I originally was a C# person, then switched to Java and have not looked back, i can still get by in C# but why do i need to when i can do everything i need in Java. I think the new programmers prefer C# more since you have a nice polished IDE and your all comfortably set in. With Java you need to actually need to put some effort, when i started Java i was writing in Notepad, eventually i got around to finding what suits me, got Eclipse and figured out many tips and tricks, now I'm very comfortable with it.

[Trigorio]

Originally Posted by ChingChong23

theres many pages on C# vs Java, in the end nobody wins.

Also your talking about RuneScape Classic which was written 10 years ago, 5 years ago he released RuneScape 2 which since then has had 3-4 major changes and is still written entirely in Java (they have over 100 developers) and millions of cash.

I originally was a C# person, then switched to Java and have not looked back, i can still get by in C# but why do i need to when i can do everything i need in Java. I think the new programmers prefer C# more since you have a nice polished IDE and your all comfortably set in. With Java you need to actually need to put some effort, when i started Java i was writing in Notepad, eventually i got around to finding what suits me, got Eclipse and figured out many tips and tricks, now I'm very comfortable with it.

Look using runescape is the worst example ever.
Runescape was released 2001, C# was released 2002, C# didn't even exist when runescape was released get it?

So the creator knew how to program in java and made runescape in java, then when hiring a staff they hired mostly programmers that know java very well. How do you expect them to jump from java to c# when most of the developers know java better?

Also I will admit, I wouldn't make a game in C# but neither in java, if anything between C#/Java and C++ then I would choose C++.

[Korvacs]

Personally i dont see the logic in using Java over a .Net language, unless your specifically need multi-platform support.

[ChingChong23]

Originally Posted by Trigorio

Look using runescape is the worst example ever.
Runescape was released 2001, C# was released 2002, C# didn't even exist when runescape was released get it?

So the creator knew how to program in java and made runescape in java, then when hiring a staff they hired mostly programmers that know java very well. How do you expect them to jump from java to c# when most of the developers know java better?

Also I will admit, I wouldn't make a game in C# but neither in java, if anything between C#/Java and C++ then I would choose C++.

I don't see how RuneScape is a bad example. When he started writing RuneScape 2 (which was from scratch, client and server) he already had millions of dollars, he hired a team and decided to do them both in Java (client was Java for the applet support) he could have easily did the server in C/C++ but no, decided to do it in Java and it's been perfectly fine since.

the RSC Client+Server was written in 1998, the client's code is horrible, so i can only assume the server code wasn't that great either. CPU's back then were quite slow, yet it still managed to hold 1.5k players on each server perfectly fine.

[KraHen]

I personnaly never really worked a lot with Java, though I`d like to start studying it this semester. As far as I understood, Java is slower than C#, because of the Virtual Machine, and because of that, I`d rather go with C# if the target platform is Windows (if I only had to pick between these 2 languages).

[Trigorio]

Originally Posted by ChingChong23

I don't see how RuneScape is a bad example. When he started writing RuneScape 2 (which was from scratch, client and server) he already had millions of dollars, he hired a team and decided to do them both in Java (client was Java for the applet support) he could have easily did the server in C/C++ but no, decided to do it in Java and it's been perfectly fine since.

the RSC Client+Server was written in 1998, the client's code is horrible, so i can only assume the server code wasn't that great either. CPU's back then were quite slow, yet it still managed to hold 1.5k players on each server perfectly fine.

Look, let's say you can chose between having 1.5k players and 5k players? Obviously if you satisfy around 1.5k then you are not aiming for the best are you now?

Andrew (creator of runescape) had programmed in java for a very very long time and therefor he was very used to java. I could picture myself in his shoes, I would possibly also of kept going with java. C# has developed alot since 2002, C# today is not the same as it was 2002 or 2005.