Silkroad Online in Unity 3d - Progress

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Originally Posted by qqdev Forget Unity. It is not capable of rendering 500+ players spamming skills (unique fights, job wars). It is designed for other purposes. That's one reason why many MMORPGs are doing their own thing.

check out ECS

wrote a very basic game with 10K A.I objects on a tiled map shooting fireballs & killing each other

it was running on 200FPS+ with my rx 470 and on EDITOR

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this asset (for Unity) was made by a silkroad fan (is what i concluded after seeing him use multiple silkroad models)
I had the chance to look at his code and it exactly fits your description this isn't anywhere near capable of running with 200-300 players spamming spells in the same area

maybe @OP could make something out of it it's on sale for blackfriday ($20) i think it's totally worth trying

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Originally Posted by B1Q What engine limitations are you talking about? so far Unity has been the best engine to work with if you want to get results fast and now with the new DOTs system there's no way you can ignore how powerful Unity is

I never said Unity is a bad Engine.
But every engine has advantages and disadvantages.
As qqdev already said Unity Engine won't be able to handle that many players with all these extras (just imagine stuff like Shaitan with hundredsof NPC Mobs...).
Maybe after optimizing for hundrets of hours etc. you could get it to work.
But Unity is not a good engine for a SRO-like MMORPG.

Every engine has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Same reason why e.g. Respawn went with Unreal Engine 4 for Jedi Fallen order instead
of EAs own Frostbyte Engine.

Another good example is Days Gone from Sony Bend. Which is also using Unreal Engine instead of one of Sonys in-house engines. In the end this was not even the best decision because they were stressing UE really hard with that game. But if that was the best engine they had access to...yea then you need to do a lot of optimization. And in the end it still was not perfect.

With Unity it is pretty much the same. For some games Unity works great. For others it does not.

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Originally Posted by B1Q EDIT: you do realize there are successful MMOs made with Unity right?

Which "successful" MMOs are you talking about?
Most MMOs I know rely on a custom engine.
ArchAge on the other hand uses CryEngine.
IIRC same goes for Aion. But I have heard that they switched to a custom solution later on?
GW2 uses a custom solution aswell.
Black Desert uses a custom solution aswell.
Same goes for Neverwinter, Star Treck Online etc..
Even Bethesda decided to use Gamebryo instead of their own Creation Engine for the exact same reason.
Blade & Soul uses Unreal Engine

That is just a small summary of titles I searched on Google. Sure there are hundrets of other MMO(RPGs) out there. And I am pretty sure a hand full of them is using Unity. But the tendency is pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by B1Q EDIT2: Silkroad Mobile is also made with Unity lol

Yea, come on :D We know it runs like dogshit.
Also it looks like dogshit and it plays like dogshit.

If you reduce everything to the bare minimum you could run everything on every engine (Which they have clearly done with that game).

_________

Even more important than the "client side" is the network infrastructure. But this has nothing to do with the game engine itself. In that regard it might be even true that the Game Engine is not that important for an MMO because it all comes down to the infrastrucure. If the netcode sucks the best engine does not help.
So even if they could get the "client side" to work as intended this project would have failed at that point where it comes to the network infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by fenster3000 I never said Unity is a bad Engine. But every engine has advantages and disadvantages. As qqdev already said Unity Engine won't be able to handle that many players with all these extras (just imagine stuff like Shaitan with hundredsof NPC Mobs...). Maybe after optimizing for hundrets of hours etc. you could get it to work. But Unity is not a good engine for a SRO-like MMORPG.

Yeah, like i said this could've been true if you have 0 multithreaded code in your project and you never make use of the new C# 4.6 features they recently started supporting

even with very basic multithreading you can have a couple thousand objects running around attacking or attempting to attack
and i honestly doubt you would want your camera to display 2000 objects most of them are probably going to be culled

and silkroad is always on the "Low" settings for me if u go to the high settings (which nobody does)

this is how it looks like on my i7-8700K & RX 470

so yeah, even silkroad is unable to handle 1000 monsters (no spells or anything) without heavy lags

of course they will move out of camera view eventually or you could move the camera the other way and problem solved and that's the case for Unity as well

but again, you probably should take a look at unity's new job system it's the best solution for the "can't handle 500 players" problem

as for the successful MMOs made with unity you just have to look for them online
or on wikipedia

if you've been keeping up with mmo releases you'll recognize multiple titles

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Originally Posted by B1Q and silkroad is always on the "Low" settings for me if u go to the high settings (which nobody does)

Why would you want to use SRO in low settings? :D
You are CPU bound anyways. Increasing the graphic settings literally does nothing
to FPS. Well... unless you change shadow detail to high :D

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Originally Posted by B1Q so yeah, even silkroad is unable to handle 1000 monsters (no spells or anything) without heavy lags

This is not surprising for a pre 2005 game engine that has not been optimized for ages.

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Originally Posted by B1Q but again, you probably should take a look at unity's new job system it's the best solution for the "can't handle 500 players" problem

Maybe it is. But I am pretty sure that other engines/custom engines still are way better for that. Even if Unity caught up to them.

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Originally Posted by B1Q as for the successful MMOs made with unity you just have to look for them online or on wikipedia if you've been keeping up with mmo releases you'll recognize multiple titles

I already saw that list. I could only find 5 MMORPGs that uses Unity. Before you ask: I did not check every single title. But I went through every year and looked for every title that sounded like an MMORPG. That is how I found:
- Battlestar Galactica Online
- Family Guy Online
- Battlestar Galactica Online
- Pathfinder Online
- Albion Online

I am pretty sure there are still some other MMORPGs out there that are based on Unity.
But they must be even more unknown than these titles. For real. I have never heard of any of those :D That is why I would not call these titles "Succesful". But to be fair. That is not what we were discussing :D

But I think none of these games was designed to handle a high amount of players. That is why this engine might work for them.

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Originally Posted by fenster3000 I already saw that list. I could only find 5 MMORPGs that uses Unity. Before you ask: I did not check every single title. But I went through every year and looked for every title that sounded like an MMORPG. That is how I found: - Battlestar Galactica Online - Family Guy Online - Battlestar Galactica Online - Pathfinder Online - Albion Online I am pretty sure there are still some other MMORPGs out there that are based on Unity. But they must be even more unknown than these titles. For real. I have never heard of any of those :D That is why I would not call these titles "Succesful". But to be fair. That is not what we were discussing :D But I think none of these games was designed to handle a high amount of players. That is why this engine might work for them.

everyone plays silkroad on low
high graphics are just awful

you really said none of these MMOs were designed to handle a high amount of players while Battlestar Galactica Online is on the top of your list? lmao

you probably will never know/understand how far Unity compared to the pile of shit it was 4 years ago until you try it yourself and compare with engine like unreal

I still believe Unity is more than capable to handle thousands of players

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Originally Posted by B1Q everyone plays silkroad on low high graphics are just awful

I stopped playing SRO on Low settings in 2008 because it looked like shit and my new PC back then was able to handle it really well. I really do not know why you want to keep these other settings on low.

What looks like shit is Blooming. But that can be disabled. It also does not add any benefit like higher texture details, view distance etc..

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Originally Posted by B1Q you really said none of these MMOs were designed to handle a high amount of players while Battlestar Galactica Online is on the top of your list? lmao

Yea. I do not even know this game. Even after searching this game on google it does not look like a game that is supposed to have a lot of stuff on screen.

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Originally Posted by B1Q you probably will never know/understand how far Unity compared to the pile of shit it was 4 years ago until you try it yourself and compare with engine like unreal

Then let's see how many Unity MMORPGs we will see during the next few years. If Unity Engine really became that good for MMORPGs it will be used much more often in future. Should be a nobrainer then.

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Originally Posted by fenster3000 I stopped playing SRO on Low settings in 2008 because it looked like shit and my new PC back then was able to handle it really well. I really do not know why you want to keep these other settings on low. What looks like shit is Blooming. But that can be disabled. It also does not add any benefit like higher texture details, view distance etc.. Yea. I do not even know this game. Even after searching this game on google it does not look like a game that is supposed to have a lot of stuff on screen. Then let's see how many Unity MMORPGs we will see during the next few years. If Unity Engine really became that good for MMORPGs it will be used much more often in future. Should be a nobrainer then.

silkroad just looks way better for me on the low settings with view distance set to the highest value and see all effects. high settings has the worst lighting that thing is very orange not a sun and it's very difficult to not get dizzy from playing for 10 minutes on high not sure if some settings are responsible for it

the game has very large scale battles u can look some up on youtube i played it for like 5 months then quit but it was enjoyable and definitely had a lot of players

I do agree. with Unity 2020 coming out soon a lot of things are about to change and i'm looking forward to seeing more MMOs made with this Engine.

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Originally Posted by B1Q silkroad just looks way better for me on the low settings with view distance set to the highest value and see all effects. high settings has the worst lighting that thing looks like an orange not a sun and it's very difficult to not get dizzy from playing for 10 minutes on high not sure if some settings are responsible for it

That is what SRO looks like with the settings I am using:

With Blooming on I would agree. Unfortunately logging in to iSRO takes ages at the moment. But you got me here. I will log in now and take a few comparision shots lol.

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Originally Posted by fenster3000 That is what SRO looks like with the settings I am using: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] With Blooming on I would agree. Unfortunately logging in to iSRO takes ages at the moment. But you got me here. I will log in now and take a few comparision shots lol.

that looks much better
i'll wait for the comparison pics

EDIT: I also forgot to mention something very important
Unity 2020 comes with the first production ready version of ECS and they also give you a solution to converting your old code to use their new technology (BurstCompiler,ECS Jobs etc)
so unless your code is a spaghetti mess you should be able to convert your game to ECS pretty easily and get a HUGE performance boost out of it

I honestly think @OP should consider grabbing one of these MMORPG assets on the store and give it a shot

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Originally Posted by B1Q that looks much better i'll wait for the comparison pics

Done.

Let's start with the first set:

2nd set of pictures:

3rd set:

4th set:

5th set:

6th set:

7th set:

8th set:

9th set:



Ok, I think that this is enough :D
The last set of pictures is really interesting. Take a look at the Low (Wide) vs. Low (Narrow) Picture. Only differences are the torches. The viewing distance is actually the same. I triple-checked this.

Well, now let's come to the conclusion. Blooming really ruins the whole picture. From what I know Bloom is set to on by default when "High" is selected. With bloom on the whole style of the game changes pretty drastically.

On the other hand: Turning of Bloom effects on the high profile preserves the style of the game while adding the benefit of "higher" texture "quality", better light effects, reflections etc..

After what you described in one of your earlier posts I am pretty sure you never disabled these ugly blooming effects :D

Edit: Remember that SRO has a day/night cycle. That is why the picture in the Donwhang set went from a colder picture to a warmer picture. Same might have happened in some other sets.

Edit 2: One other thing I noticed in the Constantinople set:
The ground texture between High (with Bloom) and High (without bloom) actually shows a difference. For whatever reason the ground in the picture without bloom uses the Low Quality texture for the ground details. :D. By looking at the trees (or at other textures) you can easily see that this is the "High" picture profile. No idea what happened there or what caused that bug. But the ground should look the same as in the picture with bloom.

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Originally Posted by fenster3000 Well, now let's come to the conclusion. Blooming really ruins the whole picture. From what I know Bloom is set to on by default when "High" is selected. With bloom on the whole style of the game changes pretty drastically. On the other hand: Turning of Bloom effects on the high profile preserves the style of the game while adding the benefit of "higher" texture "quality", better light effects, reflections etc.. After what you described in one of your earlier posts I am pretty sure you never disabled these ugly blooming effects :D Edit: Remember that SRO has a day/night cycle. That is why the picture in the Donwhang set went from a colder picture to a warmer picture. Same might have happened in some other sets. Edit 2: One other thing I noticed in the Constantinople set: The ground texture between High (with Bloom) and High (without bloom) actually shows a difference. For whatever reason the ground in the picture without bloom uses the Low Quality texture for the ground details. :D. By looking at the trees (or at other textures) you can easily see that this is the "High" picture profile. No idea what happened there or what caused that bug. But the ground should look the same as in the picture with bloom.

so it's lighting and some other particle effects from high without bloom to low
i just checked and found out i never disabled bloom while on high settings that's why it looked very bad

nonetheless, that was interesting indeed.
I still think sro wouldn't look as good with better graphics
SRO2 was a good game but it didn't last :(

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Originally Posted by B1Q check out ECS wrote a very basic game with 10K A.I objects on a tiled map shooting fireballs & killing each other it was running on 200FPS+ with my rx 470 and on EDITOR

ECS is a concept not an implementation. It is not directly related to good performance. The basic in basic game is the reason why you got 200+ FPS. Imagine a more sophisticated game. No chance to keep the FPS at a reasonable level.

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Originally Posted by qqdev ECS is a concept not an implementation. It is not directly related to good performance. The basic in basic game is the reason why you got 200+ FPS. Imagine a more sophisticated game. No chance to keep the FPS at a reasonable level.

it is an implementation. though in preview

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Originally Posted by B1Q [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] this asset (for Unity) was made by a silkroad fan (is what i concluded after seeing him use multiple silkroad models) I had the chance to look at his code and it exactly fits your description this isn't anywhere near capable of running with 200-300 players spamming spells in the same area maybe @OP could make something out of it it's on sale for blackfriday ($20) i think it's totally worth trying

already got my copy

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Originally Posted by qwertzui92 already got my copy

cool.