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Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop How couldnt I believe that you are a templover sir when all you are doing is defending them and trying to prove to use that they arent OP? Seriously... Oh and I dont need to ask "old ppl", I've been playing the game since day one.

so when they fix blunt mastery bug when ppl used staff for have high melee ppl run around with 51's ring is most 1vs1 agi avenger beat temp easy, game start be temp game when forge pet atk stuff come around, and on old rohan most skill are not balanced like reflect temp, dont need genoius to take old rohan style fix some skill and saw perfect balanced game, but yes devoloper love hero patch server cuz more way to grabs money

No, reverting progress does not solve the actual problems. Balance can be archived by other means.

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Originally Posted by matank u just need to understand this is not game based on 1vs1 thats all,go try fight self buffed str guard with selfbuffed int ds then what u gonna do? cry aboout guardian? or tell me just change ds build cuz cant 1vs1 guardian? game is based on group pvp thats is. later 3 year of hero patch private server ppl keep miss old rohan style and u keep thing problem is templar and is not thats op shit around 22k hit in 10 hit is pretty fast? how about 40-50-60k in few sec fix or cs?

I do understand this game. The point that everyone keep talking about in here is when you get full buffed with templar that`s when he becomes OP. The problem in question here is that he is the only char that gets double boost if not tripple or more. That`s why temp is OP. You complained about being 1ddp when you farm. Well I explained that when farming you can get rpked with 1dpp with any char. But when you put teamfights you prolly expect a dhan might come so you are prepared. In teamfights Temps benefit with 30% more magick atack which converted to melee helps alot to increase the damage. Dark eyes also helps. So you see, even in party temps are the only chars that get the most boost. So even in 1v1 or party pvp temp still is the most OP char.

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Originally Posted by Glixxer LMAO. 40k Damage with CS? If you're playing on a server where Templars hit 2.2k, then the Guardians won't hit more than 700 with CS. The Defenders will do about 2k with Fix, but they will hit slower than the Templar. You don't know how Rohan works, like most of Templovers. You say that this game isn't about 1V1, but earlier you were talking about Str Dhans 1 shottign you while you were farming. That's 1v1. Not only that, but Dhans kill ALL other classes in 1v1. Typical case of Templars not knowing how the game works.

i dont know how game works ? lol i generally play dekan dhan priest wizard temp defender scout zerk savage ranger and pretty it very well, on this hero patch server templar hit 10-15k? yes guardian do even more than 50k in cs and some def too but "tank" class like vit wizz vit def priest get some bosst? nothing lol most ppl now dont even know who to taget in war just random hit since everyone hit pretty hard, everyone remember hold xor pvp and eveyone miss it keep bark against temp and keep stay on this hero patch server where even unskilled ppl feeling pro cuz in 20 day u 110 and pretty geared

Fact of the matter is this.

No-one complains about scouts being OP, because they're not OP.
No-one complains about warlocks being OP, because they're not OP.
No-one complains about giants being OP, because they're not OP.
Half or more of the population complains about templars being OP, therefore something isn't right regardless of the other half of the population saying they're not OP.
The best Rohan devs agree that templars are OP.

Fact of the matter is, templars are OP.

I already made a number of changes to templars although not to the degree that Penelope can do as I don't have the skills. I've obviously reduced their attack power (by a lot), made erase identical to the priest debuff, made heals use more psy than int, reduced the active time of reflect and increased its cooldown and improved the mana drain. I've increased the damage done by the magic nukes and given them a zero cast time. This makes templars a support-caster class with backup melee.

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Originally Posted by sariusmt I do understand this game. The point that everyone keep talking about in here is when you get full buffed with templar that`s when he becomes OP. The problem in question here is that he is the only char that gets double boost if not tripple or more. That`s why temp is OP. You complained about being 1ddp when you farm. Well I explained that when farming you can get rpked with 1dpp with any char. But when you put teamfights you prolly expect a dhan might come so you are prepared. In teamfights Temps benefit with 30% more magick atack which converted to melee helps alot to increase the damage. Dark eyes also helps. So you see, even in party temps are the only chars that get the most boost. So even in 1v1 or party pvp temp still is the most OP char.

u really have to try old patch server with +8 ring no +15 weapon and some skill balanced then u gonna see temp arent op at all when they havent 40k hp 25k melee selfbuffed,empo and dark eyes give good boost ?ofc on old xor i run around with 4 77 empo boost my melee 3-4k on dg i as around with 64 melee 46 magic mace 4 with 2 +13 insu 2 ele ring and got around 10k boost melee with empo, try play glacial mace +0 on temp try make mace +15 then go test ur hit, every hero server have +13-+15 weapon +15 ring 30% scrool tsb costume then are surprise temp hit hard lol

It`s suppoed to be like that. Dhans to be able to kill 1v1 . They are assassins but even so. Temps won`t get 1dpp. Unless you got no ideea how to play a temp. Regarding OS+CS. Dude, that OS+CS will not work everytime. You can stop the guardian from OS+CS. And with a templar against him, he won`t have time to OS+CS. Reflect + Debuff + Stun + Reg hits do the job. Even if they get to hit 20k in OS+CS they won`t get that far. But temps are regular dps. They hit the same everytime. Even if you try to outrun them you can`t. Plus they are the only class that can benefit from double boostr scrolls melee and magick atack. 30% magiack atack scroll + 30% magick atack from Empower is another 60% magick atack. Converten to melee by blunt mastery I got no ideea how much will be but it does help alot. And only temps benefit from that. No other class but them. Why should it be like that? I do love temps too but still. That doesn`t seem fair from the rest of the classes.

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Originally Posted by Ishtaria Fact of the matter is this. No-one complains about scouts being OP, because they're not OP. No-one complains about warlocks being OP, because they're not OP. No-one complains about giants being OP, because they're not OP. Half or more of the population complains about templars being OP, therefore something isn't right regardless of the other half of the population saying they're not OP. The best Rohan devs agree that templars are OP. Fact of the matter is, templars are OP. I already made a number of changes to templars although not to the degree that Penelope can do as I don't have the skills. I've obviously reduced their attack power (by a lot), made erase identical to the priest debuff, made heals use more psy than int, reduced the active time of reflect and increased its cooldown and improved the mana drain. I've increased the damage done by the magic nukes and given them a zero cast time. This makes templars a support-caster class with backup melee.

yes u do this in dg ofc i remember 25% bb ib erase only 1 skill nerf ruler make ele ring and guess what after all ur job? in 2 months im run around with 10x int 64 melee 46 magic +14 mace 2 insu +13 2 ele ring 60 stat 220 atk tsb costume 44 stat on earring eyepatch gold trophy token talisman and with alm empo dark eyes with no scrool have around -28k melee then u surprise if temp hit hard? on xor with 77 ipv 13x int 14 magic mace and at lv 120 for hit -28k melee got to have full scrool and guild buff with de empo ctb

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Originally Posted by sariusmt It`s suppoed to be like that. Dhans to be able to kill 1v1 . They are assassins but even so. Temps won`t get 1dpp. Unless you got no ideea how to play a temp. Regarding OS+CS. Dude, that OS+CS will not work everytime. You can stop the guardian from OS+CS. And with a templar against him, he won`t have time to OS+CS. Reflect + Debuff + Stun + Reg hits do the job. Even if they get to hit 20k in OS+CS they won`t get that far. But temps are regular dps. They hit the same everytime. Even if you try to outrun them you can`t. Plus they are the only class that can benefit from double boostr scrolls melee and magick atack. 30% magiack atack scroll + 30% magick atack from Empower is another 60% magick atack. Converten to melee by blunt mastery I got no ideea how much will be but it does help alot. And only temps benefit from that. No other class but them. Why should it be like that? I do love temps too but still. That doesn`t seem fair from the rest of the classes.

learn me on ruler war when my reflect is gone and guard rush me how to avoid cs lol, about scrool u saw some server wich sell only 10% scrool for dont let temp being op? u saw some server where they fix scrool for let temp use only magic or melee and not both? no since they dont care make rohan unbalanced is way devoloper make ppl spend more money to get better shit thats is

Nerfing templar isn't a magical cure to rohan's balance. When you delete reflection, you open room for wizards to control opponents permamently with their sleep/stun skillset.
In my opinion the healthiest balance would be when you have to work with your teammates arround to deal and mitigate damage, through different cures and good skill timings.
No champion should have a long enough disable to pull off their whole combo (especially heavy damage dealers), if you want to make an use of a guardian you should build a party arround him, keep him alive and time your crowd control so he can pull of a nice combo.

You also have to consider that you may divide your already tiny playerbase with every little change you make.

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Originally Posted by kthxbai2 Nerfing templar isn't a magical cure to rohan's balance. When you delete reflection, you open room for wizards to control opponents permamently with their sleep/stun skillset. You also have to consider that you may divide your already tiny playerbase with every little change you make.

Doesn`t have to be that way. Temps don`t really need to be so nerfed, but the OP %atack items +18 boss drops and such ... imho it shouldn`t exist.

There were a lot of things I couldn't change at DG because the server was already running when I joined, remember? I didn't change erase like that nor did I make any major changes to their attack power because the server owner was too concerned about the QQ from players. I was told to put triple stats in, I didn't want it.

You also keep talking about gear and stats on that gear. New servers run by competent devs will have completely different stats and gear so your + this 64 that 10x there is totally meaningless.

I'm trying to be polite but you're starting to test my patience because you're not actually contributing anything positive to this templar argument.

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Originally Posted by kthxbai2 Nerfing templar isn't a magical cure to rohan's balance. When you delete reflection, you open room for wizards to control opponents permamently with their sleep/stun skillset. You also have to consider that you may divide your already tiny playerbase with every little change you make.

This is exactly whats wrong with rohan in general. There is way more broken stuff than just templars. If it wouldnt be for templars damage and reflection, wizards would have an easy play. However, this does not prove the actual need for templars being OP, no, it proves the opposite. It proves that there's more to be fixed. Balancing one thing will turn your view from one problem to the next, in other words it creates a chain of other problems untill you hit a point where it gets near to true balance. But yea, in order to have a balanced game, balances need to be done, obviously. Just turning around and blindly taking templars as a necessary evil is not the proper way. Balance is a progress. (And a bitch)

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Originally Posted by Ishtaria There were a lot of things I couldn't change at DG because the server was already running when I joined, remember? I didn't change erase like that nor did I make any major changes to their attack power because the server owner was too concerned about the QQ from players. I was told to put triple stats in, I didn't want it. You also keep talking about gear and stats on that gear. New servers run by competent devs will have completely different stats and gear so your + this 64 that 10x there is totally meaningless. I'm trying to be polite but you're starting to test my patience because you're not actually contributing anything positive to this templar argument.

so what templar argument? u keep said temp are op about is skill i keep said gear and high atk stuff or high+ ring make it op, u got skill for change some skill u want tell me if u leave max ring + 8 u cant make some class on group pvp to handle 15k melee templar with no lion ? everydecent ppl know temp with 70 ipv and hawk have around 15k hp is 1 triple fatal 1 ffs and he flight lol if templar want survive need dn or mb from priest if guard want survive to templar need priest on his pt or def and work togheter till reflect is gone thats how work rohan

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Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop This is exactly whats wrong with rohan in general. There is way more broken stuff than just templars. If it wouldnt be for templars damage and reflection, wizards would have an easy play. However, this does not prove the actual need for templars being OP, no, it proves the opposite. It proves that there's more to be fixed. Balancing one thing will turn your view from one problem to the next, in other words it creates a chain of other problems untill you hit a point where it gets near to true balance. But yea, in order to have a balanced game, balances need to be done, obviously. Just turning around and blindly taking templars as a necessary evil is not the proper way. Balance is a progress. (And a bitch)

Yeah this is exactly the point I also try to make.

There can be no excuse for a single class to be game breakingly OP. Whatever reasons there might be, you have to fix those too i.e. vit wizard crowd control spam, vit dekans etc.

Once you remove any justification for being OP, those who still support it just want to be OP for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by matank so what templar argument? u keep said temp are op about is skill i keep said gear and high atk stuff or high+ ring make it op, u got skill for change some skill u want tell me if u leave max ring + 8 u cant make some class on group pvp to handle 15k melee templar with no lion ? everydecent ppl know temp with 70 ipv and hawk have around 15k hp is 1 triple fatal 1 ffs and he flight lol if templar want survive need dn or mb from priest if guard want survive to templar need priest on his pt or def and work togheter till reflect is gone thats how work rohan

Waaaat? You're talking as if a decent dev won't have already adjusted dekans. You keep talking as if nerfing templars is the only thing a decent dev will do. Read what I said at the top of this post in reply to Penelope.

Can you comprehend that a templar shouldn't be a frontline attacker and instead would be a support-caster with backup healing and damage?

matank, this game should be like that. Balacing in my opinion means every class should be weak against another. Not temps to be at top of everyone. Yea, temps could get raped by str avenger but dhans are weak against wizards, warlocks ... and that`s the cycle. But right now temps are so overbuffed that it`s almost impossible to kill. So what if temps get 1DPP if they are surprised by a dhan? dhans can also get killed if they are caught. And if you dodge that DPP you can debuff them and crush them.