[App SRO]Bane v2

What I keep seeing is simply people asking us -moderators- to allow those "respected" members on the SRO section to do whatever they want to and not to ban/infract them if they do something wrong; and that is totally wrong, as this can't be done by any of us, even if in one section one single user is the one making all the releases, if this user breaks the rules he/she needs to be punished according to the board rules, without any exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHeatz What I keep seeing is simply people asking us -moderators- to allow those "respected" members on the SRO section to do whatever they want to and not to ban/infract them if they do something wrong; and that is totally wrong, as this can't be done by any of us, even if in one section one single user is the one making all the releases, if this user breaks the rules he/she needs to be punished according to the board rules, without any exception.

I am not saying that the section should be unmoderated, but it's quite clear that bane's past approach has not done anything good.


If you fail to see all these things, I have failed in trying to show you the truth, but you seem blind for it.

There is simply no rational explanation why anybody would choose bane as a mod for the silkroad section, unless this forum has become that corrupt that a friend of an administrator is chosen over the quality of this forum, which will lead into plain destruction of the whole section.

I have said what I wanted to say, you may have a lot of moderation experience, you simply do not have the right to judge over the silkroad section without being a part of it. Moderation in this case can not be approached with 100% objectivity, now it's up to you to take my words into consideration.

Quote:

Obviously, if you look at the 'atmosphere' this thread has developped, that alone will tell you enough why Bane should not become a moderator again, in the silkroad section atleast

For me it is not obvious.
Please tell me :)

Quote:

Moderation in this case can not be approached with 100% objectivity, now it's up to you to take my words into consideration.

Do you think SRO is simething special!? Goddamn, you are the blind one.
Objectivity has to be enforced in all sections. In every section everyone is treated equally.
Even if there was only one skilled guy who shared stuff. If he broke the rules, he would get punished. For really skilled members there are little exceptions sometimes, but if they infringe the rules too often, they will get their punishment as well.
SRO is not the most important section of Epvp. The admins will not change the rules and allow skilled members to break the rules there, just because you want so!

Ah btw. you want to remove the objectivity from your section, but

Quote:

unless this forum has become that corrupt that a friend of an administrator is chosen over the quality of this forum

for Bane's application you want an objective judgement?

It has been said several times, though I fear some of you might missed that point: Every (normal) user is equal to any other (normal) user. There is no possible scenario in which a user would be punished for an action and another user wouldn't for the very same action. There are rules, and they are absolutely obligatory. It seems to me, if I might point that out, that some of you guys assume the sro forums to have their own special rules, i.e. their very own way concerning how they work. This is not true. E.g. just posting a meme is, after all, spam. If you yet posted such posts without being infracted for them, lucky you.
To put it in a nutshell: You would be fucked if there will be any mod not being a former member of the sro community and hence being objective enough to hammer the rules home to you guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nezekan I have said what I wanted to say, you may have a lot of moderation experience, you simply do not have the right to judge over the silkroad section without being a part of it. Moderation in this case can not be approached with 100% objectivity, now it's up to you to take my words into consideration.

I totally get your point, yet you are not getting our point; as, in a rethorical scenerio, you wouldn't accept me as a moderator in your section because "I am not a part of it" yet, what you take as the meaning of this sentence is that I must be active in posting in this section, and there is where you are wrong, as in my own specific case, I have posted a couple of times there (which doesn't fit with your description of "being part of it") yet, I read every section every day, which makes me a part of it, not just on the SRO section, but on every section I do this same thing in.

This also goes, on a more realistic scenerio, for Bane, who does both parts of this (Read every single post, and makes posts on this section) so there I think, he would fit into this sentence you are giving and which I highlighted into the quoting of your post

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSm!th For me it is not obvious. Please tell me :) Do you think SRO is simething special!? Goddamn, you are the blind one. Objectivity has to be enforced in all sections. In every section everyone is treated equally. Even if there was only one skilled guy who shared stuff. If he broke the rules, he would get punished. For really skilled members there are little exceptions sometimes, but if they infringe the rules too often, they will get their punishment as well. SRO is not the most important section of Epvp. The admins will not change the rules and allow skilled members to break the rules there, just because you want so! Ah btw. you want to remove the objectivity from your section, but for Bane's application you want an objective judgement?

For me it's obvious, check all the posts the only positive ones were from other moderators while all the negative ones were from actual silkroad section members, doesn't this tell you anything?

I have never said that 'skilled' members are allowed to do everything, try to read my last post. I have said that it needs a totally different approach than just banning them, because that just makes it worse.

And you say it yourself, there may be some exceptions for really skilled members, but if you read my post after that you would have known that I meant something totally different, I do know that subjective moderation is a bad thing but banning all good members ain't a good thing either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad' It has been said several times, though I fear some of you might missed that point: Every (normal) user is equal to any other (normal) user. There is no possible scenario in which a user would be punished for an action and another user wouldn't for the very same action. There are rules, and they are absolutely obligatory. It seems to me, if I might point that out, that some of you guys assume the sro forums to have their own special rules, i.e. their very own way concerning how they work. This is not true. E.g. just posting a meme is, after all, spam. If you yet posted such posts without being infracted for them, lucky you. To put it in a nutshell: You would be fucked if there will be any mod not being a former member of the sro community and hence being objective enough to hammer the rules home to you guys.

You also fail to get my point. I am not saying that spamming and just general nonsense should be allowed, I am just saying that banes approach was not the right one to do this. Banning or infracting will simply not help and if you check out the section I do think you will notice that. I am just saying that we need a totally different approach and I do not think that bane is the right person for it

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHeatz I totally get your point, yet you are not getting our point; as, in a rethorical scenerio, you wouldn't accept me as a moderator in your section because "I am not a part of it" yet, what you take as the meaning of this sentence is that I must be active in posting in this section, and there is where you are wrong, as in my own specific case, I have posted a couple of times there (which doesn't fit with your description of "being part of it") yet, I read every section every day, which makes me a part of it, not just on the SRO section, but on every section I do this same thing in. This also goes, on a more realistic scenerio, for Bane, who does both parts of this (Read every single post, and makes posts on this section) so there I think, he would fit into this sentence you are giving and which I highlighted into the quoting of your post

There lies the problem, bane has no idea what he's talking about. I don't like 'taking people on their words' but in this case you don't leave me a choice, some examples:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] => is kinda obvious

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] => everybody who has atleast tried to run those files will know how to fix this by just looking at that description

and many more, if you look at his posts in the sro section. I am sure Bane that you are a smart person, but you just lack the experience with silkroad. I will repeat myself that this is nothing personal but I'd just like to keep our section alive.

As moderator, you don't need to have any experience on the subject since you just have to convey the rules.
And you are talking of a "different approach". Just two things: You yourself have no idea what you are talking about as you are not giving any example for a "new approach". There isn't any need of a new approach either. Let me state the following:
There are rules. They are obligatory. You break them, you get yourself punished. This is how it works. We are no damn hippies nor psychologists; if you don't like the way it works then you should better be leaving. Really.
Not meant to offend anyone.

Quote:

For me it's obvious, check all the posts the only positive ones were from other moderators while all the negative ones were from actual silkroad section members, doesn't this tell you anything?

Yeah, but it does not tell me that he should not be a moderator.
I already explained what it tells me.

Btw. as Bane said, very few SRO members posted here (even negatively), so basically, we can't really see the section's opinion, but only the opinion of a few trolls.

Quote:

I have never said that 'skilled' members are allowed to do everything, try to read my last post. I have said that it needs a totally different approach than just banning them, because that just makes it worse

If you break the rules, you get an infraction. If you have 3 ones, you get a temp ban. If you break the rules AGAIN, you get a perm ban.
No Exceptions.

Quote:

And you say it yourself, there may be some exceptions for really skilled members, but if you read my post after that you would have known that I meant something totally different, I do know that subjective moderation is a bad thing but banning all good members ain't a good thing either.

Do you really not notice the hundreds of useless spamming/flaming/trolling members or even malware spreaders banned every day?
It's not like we ban good members only...

Quote:

You also fail to get my point. I am not saying that spamming and just general nonsense should be allowed, I am just saying that banes approach was not the right one to do this. Banning or infracting will simply not help and if you check out the section I do think you will notice that. I am just saying that we need a totally different approach and I do not think that bane is the right person for it

You don't get a special treatment, you are treated equally as everyone else.
Banning spammers surely does work, or did you still see them spamming?
The fact that some skilled members might have been under those banned spammers, but that is no excuse for a special regulation.
In other sections there are skilled members who are banned as well.
Please read my post, too!
The SRO section is not the main section of Epvp, you are not special or something like that and are punsihed exactly the same way as the others!

Quote:

and many more, if you look at his posts in the sro section. I am sure Bane that you are a smart person, but you just lack the experience with silkroad. I will repeat myself that this is nothing personal but I'd just like to keep our section alive.

Uhm, could you please decide for only one point?
First, you say he is not the right person, because he does not know how to handle the SRO section appropriately, then you say it is because of his missing SRO knowledge.
Even if you were right with the second, it is no reason to not accept him; he does not need the knowledge, neither to moderate in other sections, nor to moderate your "special" section, as you call it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad' As moderator, you don't need to have any experience on the subject since you just have to convey the rules. And you are talking of a "different approach". Just two things: You yourself have no idea what you are talking about as you are not giving any example for a "new approach". There isn't any need of a new approach either. Let me state the following: There are rules. They are obligatory. You break them, you get yourself punished. This is how it works. We are no damn hippies nor psychologists; if you don't like the way it works then you should better be leaving. Really. Not meant to offend anyone.

If I would be leaving it wouldn't be because of that but more because of how crappy epvp has become please take your hand out of banes ass and dont think like a monkey. You are always trying to make my arguments sound invalid but you fail to bring in decent arguments yourself. Anybody reading this topic with an IQ higher than 20 can see this and it brings me back to the question why you keep defending him. There is no rational explanation why you would make him moderator, there are people from in the section itself with much more moderator experience and even skills, even I have more moderator experience as him, I know more about the section, my language skills are obviously better, but would you defend me, like you defended him? The rational answer would be yes, but I doubt you would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSm!th Yeah, but it does not tell me that he should not be a moderator. I already explained what it tells me. Btw. as Bane said, very few SRO members posted here (even negatively), so basically, we can't really see the section's opinion, but only the opinion of a few trolls. If you break the rules, you get an infraction. If you have 3 ones, you get a temp ban. If you break the rules AGAIN, you get a perm ban. No Exceptions. Do you really not notice the hundreds of useless spamming/flaming/trolling members or even malware spreaders banned every day? It's not like we ban good members only... You don't get a special treatment, you are treated equally as everyone else. Banning spammers surely does work, or did you still see them spamming? The fact that some skilled members might have been under those banned spammers, but that is no excuse for a special regulation. In other sections there are skilled members who are banned as well. Please read my post, too! The SRO section is not the main section of Epvp, you are not special or something like that and are punsihed exactly the same way as the others! Uhm, could you please decide for only one point? First, you say he is not the right person, because he does not know how to handle the SRO section appropriately, then you say it is because of his missing SRO knowledge. Even if you were right with the second, it is no reason to not accept him; he does not need the knowledge, neither to moderate in other sections, nor to moderate your "special" section, as you call it.

Obviously you should try and study a discussion course, having multiple arguments is actually a go od thing, what are you doing in a discussion board? You are using the same argument all the time and it's not even a good one. Read my posts and try again.

Posted from a mobile device

Well, it seems you just don't get it.
Flaming unobjectivly (and even being wrong; what I wrote was not an argument, but a fact, and it ware multiple, not only one fact) will not bring you far in this discussion. Maybe you should visit such a course.

Good to know that noone cares about your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSm!th Well, it seems you just don't get it. Good to know that noone cares about your opinion.

You dare to call yourself a moderator and level 2 member while posting something like that? Obviously you're out of arguments, and you've just confirmed what I've been saying. I hope Luke will realize that it's time for a new start...

Could all of you please stop this discussion right now? It's the wrong place for such things. If you want to talk about what a moderator should or shouldn't do or know use the pm system or some instant messenger. Sure, all members can post their opinion, but that's it, why does it always end like this?

I hate to object Walters word, but I am just going to say that I know MSSQL and PhP, and if you were to read my latter post, you would know I most litterly can't instal SRO files on my computer.

I requested such things to get a better understanding of the situation/help. Up to you though I do suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bаne I hate to object Walters word, but I am just going to say that I know MSSQL and PhP, and if you were to read my latter post, you would know I most litterly can't instal SRO files on my computer. I requested such things to get a better understanding of the situation/help. Up to you though I do suppose.

I understand, I was just trying to put power behind my argument. It is good that you are trying to learn more about silkroad, but that doesn't take away the fact that it is impossible to learn everything you need to know about it in a time span as small as this. It is not something that stays the same, it is changing 24/7. However I have nothing against you as a person, or a mod in general it is just in this specific section; If you were to participate and help actively in the sro section for a couple of months I'm sure that there will be much less problems. I would happily vote yes for you then, but not now.


I have said what I wanted to say, and I guess we can stop arguing now and go back to the subject this topic was made for.

Just one little thing:

Quote:

I understand, I was just trying to put power behind my argument. It is good that you are trying to learn more about silkroad, but that doesn't take away the fact that it is impossible to learn everything you need to know about it in a time span as small as this. It is not something that stays the same, it is changing 24/7. However I have nothing against you as a person, or a mod in general it is just in this specific section; If you were to participate and help actively in the sro section for a couple of months I'm sure that there will be much less problems. I would happily vote yes for you then, but not now.

Applications are not restricted to a week or something.
Some of them stay open for many months or even a year.
So basically, he has enough time to be active and get the needed knowledge.