Mid-October Update: TBM Update, Goldmine, elitecases Affiliate Program

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10/25/2017 14:50 LekoArts#31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReallyNiceGuy View Post
What do you think about a necessity to provide some proof for negative feedback when a transaction isn't registered in the trade system?
But then we would have to verify each and every evidence and decide on whether it's proper proof or not. This is no solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .QaDusch View Post
You guys are right, only people who used the trading system should be allowed to post negative stuff.
We'll wait and see how people react to this change but it's currently not planned to change things. We are going to evaluate the situation at a later time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by todelu View Post
Banned or trade restricted people gets rated as unverfied trade , even if youve traded with them. Bug, or meant to be? Love the update.
Do you have examples/links? I coulnd't find such posts.
10/25/2017 15:25 ReallyNiceGuy#32
Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post
But then we would have to verify each and every evidence and decide on whether it's proper proof or not. This is no solution.
You wouldn't, thread visitors would judge themselves whether the evidence is valid or not as they are expected to judge basing on the negative feedback alone now (that's what I've understood from the update - if I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me). We're talking about the posts with Unverified Trade mark.
10/25/2017 15:37 kokakolaz#33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReallyNiceGuy View Post
You wouldn't, thread visitors would judge themselves whether the evidence is valid or not as they are expected to judge basing on the negative feedback alone now (that's what I've understood from the update - if I'm wrong here, feel free to correct me). We're talking about the posts with Unverified Trade mark.
do it! too much bullshit people going crazy spammming each other threads that they are " scammer" and nobody buys from a person even tho hes LEGIT.
10/25/2017 16:09 LekoArts#34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReallyNiceGuy View Post
You wouldn't, thread visitors would judge themselves whether the evidence is valid or not
They exactly have to do that as from now on. We want the user to evaluate the feedback.

Quote:
as they are expected to judge basing on the negative feedback alone now
And would you - as a possible customer - take a message which only states "scammer" seriously? If the person wants to persuade other users that the Thread creator is indeed a scammer he/she will likely try to post sufficient proof.
10/26/2017 13:33 mavikorku#35
I like it
10/26/2017 17:15 d✘t ✿#36
This is nice! :)
10/26/2017 19:46 Mr. Fox#37
Regarding moderators not removing negative posts in sales threads:
You cannot apply hard logic into such systems, you have to understand some simple human psychology as well.

A quick example to you:

I'm sure most agree that 300 positives and 1 negative is a worse rating than 50 positives and 0 negatives. You rather buy from someone who has 100% clean history, rather than 99.5% clean history but more sales.

Same logic applies to threads now. Do you buy from someone who has the last page 90% positive, 10% scam accusations and unverified trades or 100% positive and unverified trades? I'd say that at least half of my customers do not even request a trade since I'm very trusted on this platform, hence this is not an unrealistic situation. Even if we would make ONLY scam accusations unverified and positive ones verified, you still prefer the clean page.

There is no reason to remove such system when the outcome only provides negatives for everyone. To be more precise, this is not a feature that you CAN remove. All other marketplaces and forums have an option to deal with such issue, you don't.

To add on top of it, this is not a place where you can be lax with such changes.
1) This is a black / gray market and people do not always use the most ethical ways to get an edge over others.
2) The audience of this forum is relatively young, so people jump on quick conclusions and start pointing fingers. When they're proven wrong, they won't bother to change the initial statement, leaving a misleading representation of the service, making you lose another seller.

Out of all sellers in my areas, I lose the least out of your change, meaning it's a positive change for me, so my self gain from this little post is non existent.
10/26/2017 20:17 cookieman420#38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fox View Post
Regarding moderators not removing negative posts in sales threads:
You cannot apply hard logic into such systems, you have to understand some simple human psychology as well.

A quick example to you:

I'm sure most agree that 300 positives and 1 negative is a worse rating than 50 positives and 0 negatives. You rather buy from someone who has 100% clean history, rather than 99.5% clean history but more sales.

Same logic applies to threads now. Do you buy from someone who has the last page 90% positive, 10% scam accusations and unverified trades or 100% positive and unverified trades? I'd say that at least half of my customers do not even request a trade since I'm very trusted on this platform, hence this is not an unrealistic situation. Even if we would make ONLY scam accusations unverified and positive ones verified, you still prefer the clean page.

There is no reason to remove such system when the outcome only provides negatives for everyone. To be more precise, this is not a feature that you CAN remove. All other marketplaces and forums have an option to deal with such issue, you don't.

To add on top of it, this is not a place where you can be lax with such changes.
1) This is a black / gray market and people do not always use the most ethical ways to get an edge over others.
2) The audience of this forum is relatively young, so people jump on quick conclusions and start pointing fingers. When they're proven wrong, they won't bother to change the initial statement, leaving a misleading representation of the service, making you lose another seller.

Out of all sellers in my areas, I lose the least out of your change, meaning it's a positive change for me, so my self gain from this little post is non existent.
agree:handsdown::handsdown:
10/29/2017 13:14 todelu#39
Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post

Do you have examples/links? I coulnd't find such posts.
Ignore that, but something i've notice is that if someone making a thread looking for an account, i trade at his thread, provide him the account. He leaves feedback at mine = unverified trade.

Example : https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post35360976

https://www.elitepvpers.com/theblackmarket/trade/525689

That's a lot of feedback which will say unverified.
11/04/2017 04:13 ElectricalStorm#40
maybe add a little incentive for top 25 miners like 4 e*gold ..would be nice and i bet more people would mine
11/05/2017 15:23 LekoArts#41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fox View Post
I'm sure most agree that 300 positives and 1 negative is a worse rating than 50 positives and 0 negatives. You rather buy from someone who has 100% clean history, rather than 99.5% clean history but more sales.
- TBM doesn't automatically mean that the person scammed someone else. And you can't make generalizations as it's different for every user.

Quote:
I'd say that at least half of my customers do not even request a trade since I'm very trusted on this platform, hence this is not an unrealistic situation. Even if we would make ONLY scam accusations unverified and positive ones verified, you still prefer the clean page.
Then it's your job to make sure that they Request a Trade. It's common practice of scammers to first make legit trades, collect positive ratings and then push the users to not use the RaT system as they are "trusted". Such users now have a voice.
If you're a legit trader it shouldn't be a problem to use the RaT system.

Quote:
1) This is a black / gray market and people do not always use the most ethical ways to get an edge over others.
Our rules forbid illegal activities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by todelu View Post


Ignore that, but something i've notice is that if someone making a thread looking for an account, i trade at his thread, provide him the account. He leaves feedback at mine = unverified trade.

Example : https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post35360976

https://www.elitepvpers.com/theblackmarket/trade/525689

That's a lot of feedback which will say unverified.
That's because you did Request a Trade on his thread, not he on yours. Feedback is only "Verified" if the person Requested a Trade on the thread he/she writes the post in. You can't transfer feedback from another thread.
11/05/2017 20:34 Mr. Fox#42
Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post
- TBM doesn't automatically mean that the person scammed someone else. And you can't make generalizations as it's different for every user.
Yes, I absolutely can make generalizations here, I am explaining to you how an average client / user views ratings / feedback. This mentality is not restricted to ePvP and works the same way in all marketplaces that have a rating system. Saying "you can't make generalizations as it's different for every user." has no value in this conversation, it's simply a blank statement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post
Then it's your job to make sure that they Request a Trade. It's common practice of scammers to first make legit trades, collect positive ratings and then push the users to not use the RaT system as they are "trusted". Such users now have a voice.
If you're a legit trader it shouldn't be a problem to use the RaT system.
You're missing the point here. We're not talking about not being able to identify real feedback among unsubstantiated feedback. We're talking about the whole existence of the post being seen to others.

I have even had 2 cases now that have definitely made a few possible customers lose their interest.
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post36408230
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post36447068

Both users have reported to me that it has been their mistake and they haven't removed their posts even when kindly asked. You cannot deny that this is leaving a wrong impression of my service.
Now again, I lose maybe 1-3 customers because of that which is not a big deal for me at all. A new service will have to start all over again, hoping that it won't happen to him again which is an unlikely case. A likely case is that he / she simply puts the focus on other platforms where such things can't happen, which is LITERALLY every other forum in this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post
Our rules forbid illegal activities.
That saying has absolute 0 value. Just because you say it's not allowed doesn't mean it won't be done. And I can guarantee you that those activities will go unpunished. The only loser will be the victim.

I am giving you feedback because I am absolutely with 100% certainty sure that you are making a very big mistake in that area and you will have a lot less new / small sellers and a lot more people leaving because their threads are spoiled.

If you want to improve your marketplace and have less people scammed / more honest reviews then you should do the opposite of your current plan and moderate more. Every other marketplace has a report a scammer / dispute feedback area where no confirmations of trade by either parties are even needed and I've personally never had any issues with it. They go even as far as banning people from their platform who have committed fraud on other sites.

Your current idea of having "Super strict" rules that can't be bent is not how rules work. Rules can only effectively exist because of exceptions.
11/08/2017 13:03 cookieman420#43
Quote:
Originally Posted by LekoArts View Post
- TBM doesn't automatically mean that the person scammed someone else. And you can't make generalizations as it's different for every user.



Then it's your job to make sure that they Request a Trade. It's common practice of scammers to first make legit trades, collect positive ratings and then push the users to not use the RaT system as they are "trusted". Such users now have a voice.
If you're a legit trader it shouldn't be a problem to use the RaT system.



Our rules forbid illegal activities.



That's because you did Request a Trade on his thread, not he on yours. Feedback is only "Verified" if the person Requested a Trade on the thread he/she writes the post in. You can't transfer feedback from another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fox View Post
Yes, I absolutely can make generalizations here, I am explaining to you how an average client / user views ratings / feedback. This mentality is not restricted to ePvP and works the same way in all marketplaces that have a rating system. Saying "you can't make generalizations as it's different for every user." has no value in this conversation, it's simply a blank statement.




You're missing the point here. We're not talking about not being able to identify real feedback among unsubstantiated feedback. We're talking about the whole existence of the post being seen to others.

I have even had 2 cases now that have definitely made a few possible customers lose their interest.
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post36408230
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/le...l#post36447068

Both users have reported to me that it has been their mistake and they haven't removed their posts even when kindly asked. You cannot deny that this is leaving a wrong impression of my service.
Now again, I lose maybe 1-3 customers because of that which is not a big deal for me at all. A new service will have to start all over again, hoping that it won't happen to him again which is an unlikely case. A likely case is that he / she simply puts the focus on other platforms where such things can't happen, which is LITERALLY every other forum in this area.



That saying has absolute 0 value. Just because you say it's not allowed doesn't mean it won't be done. And I can guarantee you that those activities will go unpunished. The only loser will be the victim.

I am giving you feedback because I am absolutely with 100% certainty sure that you are making a very big mistake in that area and you will have a lot less new / small sellers and a lot more people leaving because their threads are spoiled.

If you want to improve your marketplace and have less people scammed / more honest reviews then you should do the opposite of your current plan and moderate more. Every other marketplace has a report a scammer / dispute feedback area where no confirmations of trade by either parties are even needed and I've personally never had any issues with it. They go even as far as banning people from their platform who have committed fraud on other sites.

Your current idea of having "Super strict" rules that can't be bent is not how rules work. Rules can only effectively exist because of exceptions.
exactly... this stuff are destroying new sellers trades here
literally anyone can write bullshit on thread and nobody buys stuff.
11/11/2017 13:49 *~MarcH~*#44
great idea :)
11/12/2017 00:40 Deepismagic#45
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieman420 View Post
exactly... this stuff are destroying new sellers trades here
literally anyone can write bullshit on thread and nobody buys stuff.
Not in general. I can tell you something from my experience. Most of the time where people give a feedback with "he scammed me" ... at the end it was true. Before those changings the Mods removed those feedbacks and those Scammer could do their business even longer then it really should be.

And you got always the chance to response and to tell your side of the story, in case no one trust you because of wrong feedback you got also the chance to use a trusted MM to get your reputation back up. Many MMs are offering their service for free.

I know there will be some negative feedback coming up regarding Skype Fakers i got a lot of them too and it was really crazy because those people who got scammed didnīt wanted to listen to my side of the story even as in all if my threads and in my signature there was a warning that i didnīt use skype at all.

At the end Iīm fine with those changings.

Take your head up... write in your Threads always in your main post in red big letters that you only trade wit Request a Trade. Write a short explenation how to request a trade so that you and your customers stay on the safe side. Itīs to protect you and your own reputation. :)

People get scammed due to the fact that they donīt know the RaT system... even more people are putting a quick explenation in their main post even more people will avoid to get scammed!
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