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Goldvekauf, ab welchem Betrag gewerbe anmelden?

Old 12/03/2014, 10:06   #76
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wer dazu informationen will der liest den §23 (3) Satz 5 EstG die grenze liegt bei 600 euro. Solange etwas Steuerfrei bleibt muss man es auch nicht anmelden

herrntod2 is offline  
Old 12/03/2014, 10:18   #77

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Originally Posted by herrntod2 View Post
wer dazu informationen will der liest den §23 (3) Satz 5 EstG die grenze liegt bei 600 euro. Solange etwas Steuerfrei bleibt muss man es auch nicht anmelden
Das ist blödsinn!
Im endeffekt müsstest du bereits ein (Klein)Gewerbe anmelden wenn du weisst du wirst z.B Monatlich ~60€ einnehmen, ist dies vielleicht dann erst mal eine konstante Einnahme, muss dies angemeldet werden!

Kriegt man beispielweise nur 2-3x im Jahr Money, ist das kein Problem..

Rici is offline  
Old 12/03/2014, 10:42   #78
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Originally Posted by herrntod2 View Post
wer dazu informationen will der liest den §23 (3) Satz 5 EstG die grenze liegt bei 600 euro. Solange etwas Steuerfrei bleibt muss man es auch nicht anmelden

Eine selbständige nachhaltige Betätigung, die mit der Absicht, Gewinn zu erzielen, unternommen wird und sich als Beteiligung am allgemeinen wirtschaftlichen Verkehr darstellt, ist Gewerbebetrieb
Private Veräußerungsgeschäfte sind meist einmalige verkäufe von privatbesitz, daher liegt beim gezielten sammeln von Gold, zum verkauf, wohl eher eine gewerbeabsicht vor.

Aber ich bin kein Steuerfachmann... Und allgemein gillt: Bei Gesetztesfragen höre NICHT auf die spinner im Internet.
wowtoon is offline  
Old 12/03/2014, 13:10   #79
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hat zwar nichts mit dem thema hier zu tun aber zieht euch das rein xd

(link oder den text da unten:

7.2 Million Gold a Day from Botanica

I had a good day yesterday. I sold over 5,000g in gems, and nearly half of that was profit. As I was gathering my bounty from the mailbox this morning, pondering which raptor pet I'd spend it on, my buddy invited me to a party in Netherstorm. "You gotta see this to believe it."

If you haven't visited Botanica's floating island since the advent of cross-realm zones (CRZs), you might be surprised at the bustle of activity. From my realm, players were entering or exiting the Botanica dungeon once every few seconds. It didn't take many passing dungeoneers to notice some striking similarities: they were all paladins, level 80 or 81, riding Wyverns (horde) or Gryphons (alliance), flying in and out of the instance in one of three repeating flight patterns, and unloading at the same vendor in Cosmowrench before slogging back to the dungeons. And yes, I said flying out of the instance; it's probably an illusion due to CRZ "zone-in" delay, but it looks like they fly straight out of the rippling vortex.

Comparing achievements revealed even more similarities: all of them completed just a single quest, and no battlegrounds; they all trained first aid to level 450. More startlingly, most were created in the past day. As I watched them stream in and out at 8am on April 20, pally after pally flew by with "Reach Level 10" through "Reach Level 80" achievement dates of April 20. Of the dozens i checked, the oldest I've found leveled on April 11.

These are the Botanica Bots. Foot soldiers of the gold-selling empires, created for the sole purpose of running Botanica until decommissioned, looting and selling everything they can grab, and mailing the proceeds to their puppet-masters. Browsing statistics on their number of "Warp Splinter" boss kills in Botanica and the total gold they've acquired, the average income is terribly low, a meager 120g per run. The only way to make serious coin at this is to make it up on volume. 120 runs a day, 50 bots per realm, and an empty-pocketed puppet-master starting out this morning will be gold capped at a million gold on every realm they target by tomorrow afternoon. Wouldn't that attract some unwanted attention? Individual bots may be banned, but forum posts about the Botanica Bots go back to at least 2010, so they're here for the long haul. In earlier years, they were a mix of pallies and death knights, but some trait seems to have favored paladins, and even with a 55-level head start, death knights have all but vanished among dungeon bots.

Of course it takes a little planning to run an operation of this scale smoothly. Say you want to cover 10 high-pop realms with 50 bots each. You need hardware capable of 500-boxing; a modern PC might only run 20 simultaneous copies of WoW, so you should clear enough desk space for 25 computers. Next you'll need 500 wow accounts. If Blizzard tolerates this with a wink and a nod, you can buy 500 copies of WoW and 500 subscriptions legitimately for under $100,000 a year. If they purge the accounts in a never-ending game of cat-and-mouse, you'll need a wholesale supplier of either compromised WoW accounts or stolen credit card numbers to create new accounts every day. You'll need a botting script, which takes a few minutes of googling, and may take a few hours to customize for your particular strategy. And you'll want to license or otherwise obtain access to a few hundred IP proxies so it looks like you're connecting from different locations around the United States. But after that you're pretty well set.

So now that you've got an extra 7,200,000 gold a day (500 bots x 120g x 120 runs), what do you do with it? Googling "sell WoW gold" returns hundreds of websites, and the ones that look professionally maintained typically offer around $0.0005 (US) per gold. Before you say "dammit, a hundredth of a nickel?!?," punch that into a calculator and a million gold comes out to $500 (US). Or in your case with 500 accounts, $3,600 per day (US). Over a million dollars a year. When you put it that way, running 25 computers and dropping a hundred large for WoW licenses, compromised accounts, or stolen credit card numbers doesn't seem like a major outlay.

You're probably thinking "seriously dude, nobody would run that many bots." I recorded over 400 bot names this morning on about 20 realms. Some I watched stream in and out of the instance. For others I'd create a new toon on a realm and type "/who botanica"; dozens of level 80-81 paladins showed up on realm after realm. You could see some small-time operators from lower-pop realms, running two or three bots, but almost all the high-pop realms had 50+ simultaneous bots (at most 50 names are returned by a /who query), and many mid-pop realms had a dozen or two as well. Of the hundreds of players listed inside Botanica, only two weren't level 80-81 paladins, so the rate of false positives using this technique must be negligible.

A few botters have signature MOs (modus operandi, or methods of operation, for those who don't watch enough Murder, She Wrote). One botter we dubbed Ten-Man Ann deploys exactly ten dungeon bots per target realm, all named starting with the same two letters for a given realm. Occasionally she has an eleventh matching-named pally lounging in Dalaran, but only ten working the dungeons. Hers are all level 81 pallies, and they fly up and out of the dungeon, over the archway, instead of straight out, pausing, and through the archway. Look at the bots on US-Dalaran-Horde: Ttdfgh, Ttdfs, Ttfdg, Ttfdggh, Ttfgd, Ttfgfh, Ttfgl, Ttgfhf, Ttgfvhf, and Ttvfghg. Or US-Aggramar-Horde: Tcaka, Tcakaa, Tcakb, Tcakbb, Tcakc, Tcakcc, Tcakd, Tcakdd, Tcake, and Tcakee. Or US-Arthas-Horde: Qabnh, Qafrb, Qafrt, Qagtr, Qajuyh, Qakiol, Qauik, Qavfgh, Qavfgt, Qaxde. Or US-Bleeding Hollow-Horde: Ccdds, Ccdgdf, Ccdgf, Ccdsf, Ccdsfd, Ccfdfgf, Ccgfdj, Ccgfg, Ccsdf and Ccsdfsd. She's also on US-Darkspear-Alliance, US-Zangarmarsh-Alliance, US-Arygos-Alliance, US-Zangarmarsh-Alliance, and doubtless scores of other realms. All simultaneously. I didn't check many realms, but 50+ realms with ten bots per realm seems like a distinct possibility, meaning Ten-Man Ann could be a million dollar mama.

So why hasn't Blizzard stopped this? It's hard to say. For one thing, customer ignorance makes this a lower priority issue than if it were splashed across WoW sites like spell balance issues. Botting is a taboo topic that's difficult to discuss on the most popular WoW forums on the Internet. Blizzard will typically revoke your forum privileges if you say too much about bots, mention a bot's name, talk about Blizzard's action or inaction regarding reported bots, or discuss their revoking forum privileges (I love that circularity). Other major WoW community sites have been bought by conglomerate gaming sites and, who typically maintain well-intentioned anti-harassment policies that prohibit naming "players," even if they're bots. They disallow meaningful discussion of how bots operate, or links to relevant sites, even as bots have become the dominant force in the virtual economies of every mid-pop or larger realm, under the premise that talking about the phenomenon encourages it. So you've got a largely ignorant player base, self-censoring community sites, and Blizzard not wanting to draw attention to the problem for PR reasons.

Then you've got the difficulty of actually combatting the problem. To an outsider, this doesn't seem very daunting. I spotted 400 obvious bots while I was sipping my morning cup of Joe; an employee focused on bots, with access to back-end server queries, could identify several thousand per day. But Blizzard suggests this would require overwhelming numbers of personnel. "If you think of how many realms there are, then consider how many people you'd need per realm, we are talking literally hundreds, if not thousands of staff. Just to sit and observe the game, not actually helping with the large selection of other issues that Game Masters deal with. Do you really think that's a good investment?"

That representative later explains how responding to player-reported cheaters is a more effective use of Blizzard's time than watching for cheaters themselves. "Surely it’s better to have GMs address reported issues before logging in to randomly hang around in the hope of maybe catching someone." The difficulty here is that their streamlined approach to reporting players puts the Sisyphean task on the shoulders of players. If I open a normal ticket listing a hundred botters, in two days (after the bots are gone) I'll get a form letter politely blowing me off and suggesting I try the new "Report Player" feature. To use the Report Player feature, you have to stand within a few yards of the bot you want to report, click on their body or Name Plate to target them, right-click on the target Unit Frame, hover over "Report Player For: ->", and click on "Cheating." If the bot flies away before you click, your target and reporting menu vanish from the screen. Do you know how long it takes the average Botanica Bot to fly out of range? Neither do I, because it's too fast to time. I've reported some of the slower ones that way, but that's to report a single bot. You could spend a couple hours hours just to report just a hundred bots. By the time you're done reporting your initial bot list, some of them will have literally retired and been replaced with new bots. Perhaps more importantly, the tools and data Blizzard have at their disposal dwarf what players have can access. Suggesting that GMs need to log in and "hang around" just like a player would is a straw man argument.

Blizzard has said they spend time studying how bots operate before taking action in order to thwart immediate replacement bots. The Botanica Bots have been operating since at least 2010, so Blizzard may be in the nascent stages of a longitudinal study which won't culminate in any action for several more years. It's equally possible that they're quietly banning thousands of these bots every day, but with millions of real dollars in income at stake, botters keep coming back. "What we do is study the bots, see exactly how they do what they do, and fix it so that they don’t work anymore. Once we’ve applied the fix, then the ban waves take place. By doing it like this, we can also come up with better methods of detection, and devise systems that are more effective against bot detection and removal. Having said that, it's an on-going fight. Botters develop new bots by working out what we detected and fixed, and it starts all over again."

If you want to help combat the problem, I'd encourage you to share your observations on how these bots operate, and report any useful information to Blizzard. Information could be used by both botters and bot-fighters, but forum censorship has done nothing to remedy this problem so far. One question I'm curious about is how the bots level from 1 to 80 so quickly. Scrolls of Resurrection could explain it, but then the account would show older account-wide achievements, and there have to be a finite number of compromised pre-March-2012 accounts for even prolific hackers to resurrect. All the bots I've checked have "Exploration" achievements for all the flyable zones in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor on the date they leveled (i.e. yesterday or today, for most of the bots) - could exploring these continents somehow be exploited as a significant source of experience points? A few bots have slightly older account-wide achievements, like a "Can I Keep Him?" pet achievement from April 8 for a character that leveled on April 19 and started running Botanica on April 20, or an account-wide "Reach Level 85" achievement on April 12 for a character with "Reach Level 10" through "Reach Level 80" personal achievements on April 19.

I'd also take Blizzard's advice to report bots whenever you're able. Stand outside Botanica once in a while and see if you can find some bots to report. Maybe Saturday is their big day, when Blizzard's bot-fighters have the day off, but if your Botanica is anything like my Botanica right now, you won't have any trouble finding targets. I sent a message to with my lengthy list of bots (more than would fit in a normal ticket anyway). While they may prefer the "Report Player" option, perhaps e-mail is of use as well; it's certainly more convenient for the reporter.

As for me, I've had enough of these bots; I'm heading back to the ramparts and law-abiding order of Stormwind to prospect for some gems. Some guy I never saw before gave me a sweet deal on 150 stacks of ore. I wonder where he got that much!


zozosexy is offline  
Old 12/03/2014, 14:51   #80

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Hab alles gelesen. Dafür das es davon profitiert, weint er aber ganz schön viel.
Some guy I never saw before gave me a sweet deal on 150 stacks of ore. I wonder where he got that much!

Trotzdem ein guter Text.

Ipalot is offline  

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