Bump like you have never bumped before - New Bump System!

[todelu]

Originally Posted by Der-Eddy

Thats a valid point, but in that case user with more feedback/questions in their thread are more often bumped to the top => reach more users => more feedback/questions => rinse and repeat

Everyone started with 0 tbm.

When I started there was plenty of boosters with 200 + tbm.

Work hard, get rewarded.

That's life.

Lets say you get feedback from one client once before 24 hours have passed.

That increases your chances to find new customers with 100%.
And if you have an account shop
you often get more feedback, due you sell more accounts
which would bump your thread many more times before 24 hours passed.

Remove that option, and guess what you're doing with active peoples economy.

[mlukac89]

Originally Posted by LeKoArts

Well how do you recognize fake bumps?

Put cookie to enable button every 24 H, u check if user is clicked and if passed 24 H show him button.


If cookies off, get him notification or use js, ajax or something else.

[Frosttall]

Originally Posted by todelu

Everyone started with 0 tbm.

When I started there was plenty of boosters with 200 + tbm.

Work hard, get rewarded.

That's life.

Lets say you get feedback from one client once before 24 hours have passed.

That increases your chances to find new customers with 100%.
And if you have an account shop
you often get more feedback, due you sell more accounts
which would bump your thread many more times before 24 hours passed.

Remove that option, and guess what you're doing with active peoples economy.

The more customers you get, the more money you earn.


If you get 1 customer within 24h and earn 10$, you can keep 10$.
If you get 2 customers within 24h by bumping once (e.g. 0,10$ BC-cost), you still made 19,90$.


You basically spent 0,10$ to receive 9,90$, which you would have "lost" because your idle time would have not been used. What's the issue here? That you're loosing the 0,10$ you didn't have had to spend because a customer automatically pushed your thread?
Com'on, you're still making profit and show elitepvpers your appreciation at the same time.

[supportsec]

Well the idea isn't bad .
But how does it work with posting now ? We can post even bilion posts in our threads atm , since it doesn't bump thread anymore ?
Is posting an opinion about some service available now , since as mentioned above it doesn't bump the thread anymore and don't cause the mess?

Maybe put also an option that the thread would be pinned up to the first page for some amount of Bump coins ?

Having an official middleman on EPVP that would take a little % from each transaction but also provide all needed help if the trade won't go as planned etc etc.

Good step but there is hundreds more cases that need to be improved .

Bump Bumper Bumpity!

[Shareni]

Would you consider implementing sticky threads for sellers?

I am pretty sure people would pay decent money for that, starting with myself.

[Frosttall]

Originally Posted by supportsec

But how does it work with posting now ? We can post even bilion posts in our threads atm , since it doesn't bump thread anymore ?
Is posting an opinion about some service available now , since as mentioned above it doesn't bump the thread anymore and don't cause the mess?

You were always free to post your opinion about a service and this won't change. The only type of posts which are now forbidden are Bump-Posts - everything else stays at it is.

[​Exo]

Originally Posted by supportsec

Well the idea isn't bad .
But how does it work with posting now ? We can post even bilion posts in our threads

Maybe put also an option that the thread would be pinned up to the first page for some amount of Bump coins ?!

I don't think that would be a good idea. You see, tons of threads are created every day at the BM. If this was to be the case, you might get issues designing the whole thing. A page holds a limited number of threads, so eventually you will get some queue before your thread shows up there, a huge queue! Besides, you could already see how some users are disagreeing with the system since it limits their appearance time with no work arounds this time(feedback bumps) preserving the first few pages to whoever pays more will really take some guts and will of course make a lot of people angry. So unless the admins are ready to lose some users and keep the ones who you might think are more valuable to this website then others, I wouldn't think something like this would be applied. Elitepvpers has always been a place where everyone could speak and BE SEEN, the bumping feature already makes it a bit harder to be seen in exchange of a more clean forum and balancing the e*gold value.

[supportsec]

Originally Posted by ​Exo

I don't think that would be a good idea. You see, tons of threads are created every day at the BM. If this was to be the case, you might get issues designing the whole thing. A page holds a limited number of threads, so eventually you will get some queue before your thread shows up there, a huge queue! Besides, you could already see how some users are disagreeing with the system since it limits their appearance time with no work arounds this time(feedback bumps) preserving the first few pages to whoever pays more will really take some guts and will of course make a lot of people angry. So unless the admins are ready to lose some users and keep the ones who you might think are more valuable to this website then others, I wouldn't think something like this would be applied. Elitepvpers has always been a place where everyone could speak and BE SEEN, the bumping feature already makes it a bit harder to be seen in exchange of a more clean forum and balancing the e*gold value.

Maybe implementing an option that would allow a place in the first page for a whole day , could be an idea .
And that place would be sold via auction and the highest bid would receive that slot . This would help the EPVP quite alot i suppose and also wouldn't make that huge mess if that would be just a one spot on the first page .

[crazedroo]

There is a bug with the new system.
In the forum view (at the bottom), the default is now Sort By: Last Bump.
Even if I change that to Sort By: Last Post and apply, it will refresh the page and still show sort by last bump.

[todelu]

Originally Posted by Frosttall

You basically spent 0,10$ to receive 9,90$, which you would have "lost" because your idle time would have not been used. What's the issue here? That you're loosing the 0,10$ you didn't have had to spend because a customer automatically pushed your thread?

50 bump coins cost 130 elite*gold
130 elite*gold cost 5 euro.
10 bump coins = 1 euro.
10 bump coins = 75% shorter time untill I can bump.
= 365 euros a year.
And that's only 1 thread.
If im not wrong, u can do that with 5 threads at once?
= 365x5 = 1825 euro / year.
This is 100% free on every other forum.

I lose 1 euro for everytime I'd use the bump function, and wouldnt even be instant as before.

And if you're selling PBE accounts (for example) which sells for 2-3 euros.
Thats up to half your profit paid to EPVP for a bump.

That's the issue.

Originally Posted by Frosttall

Com'on, you're still making profit

Normally got 1-3 feedback bumps before I bumped my own thread before this option got added.

Sure, I'll still make a profit.
But it will decrease my chance to make a profit with 300%.

Originally Posted by Frosttall

show elitepvpers your appreciation at the same time.

I've done that by buying premium, which wasnt forced on me.

As this is.

[Frosttall]

Originally Posted by todelu

50 bump coins cost 130 elite*gold
130 elite*gold cost 5 euro.
10 bump coins = 1 euro.
10 bump coins = 75% shorter time untill I can bump.
= 365 euros a year.
And that's only 1 thread.
If im not wrong, u can do that with 5 threads at once?
= 365x5 = 1825 euro / year.
This is 100% free on every other forum.

I lose 1 euro for everytime I'd use the bump function, and wouldnt even be instant as before.

And if you're selling PBE accounts (for example) which sells for 2-3 euros.
Thats up to half your profit paid to EPVP for a bump.

That's the issue.



Normally got 1-3 feedback bumps before I bumped my own thread before this option got added.

Sure, I'll still make a profit.
But it will decrease my chance to make a profit with 300%.


I've done that by buying premium, which wasnt forced on me.

As this is.

Maybe you should consider attending some business lessons and getting the right facts .


If you're thinking in that scale, you can get 1500 Bump Coins for 3120 e*gold. The current market price for e*gold is about 1€ for 160 e*gold. This brings the price down to 0,13€ for 10 BC.


You can push every 24h for free and don't need to keep the thread pushed at 3AM. Every time you push for 0,13€, you potentionally can get a few customers - on a price of 3€ per account, you can make for example 9€ by spending 0,13€.


Make 2 pushes a day, one for free and one speeded up, that sums up to 18€ a day. 365 days a year, this yields in a revenue of 6.570€ while spending 47,45€ on pushes - that's 0,72%.


So what's the issue?

[todelu]

Originally Posted by Frosttall

Maybe you should consider attending some business lessons and getting the right facts .

Whats wrong with my facts?
I really wanna know, mabye you are correct and I missed something.




Just cuz I dont use the smartest method, doesnt mean my facts are wrong.
Mabye someone dont have the budget for the most expensive package?

Originally Posted by Frosttall

You can push every 24h for free and don't need to keep the thread pushed at 3AM.

Ofc I do.
NA Section...?

Originally Posted by Frosttall

that's 0,72%.

Higher fees then I pay PayPal.

[Frosttall]

Originally Posted by todelu

Whats wrong with my facts?
I really wanna know, mabye you are correct and I missed something.




Just cuz I dont use the smartest method, doesnt mean my facts are wrong.
Mabye someone dont have the budget for the most expensive package?

Well it's the same as going to some bank which gives you 50% of the official exchange rate instead of going to an honest exchange place. Elitepvpers is aware of the price drops and the huge difference between the official price and the market value. If somebody decides to purchase his whole elite*gold trough the system, he's simply a bad business man


Everybody starts small and it's always the case, that you'll have to pay more at the beginning and the more successful you get, the bigger get the batches you're able to buy at once. This is always the case - the more you buy, the less you pay, the higher gets your margin. At first you start small and you grow with time.

Originally Posted by todelu

Ofc I do.
NA Section...?

Well even better. This means every single push yields you money and it's not wasted, so what's your issue?

Originally Posted by todelu

Higher fees then I pay PayPal.

Well but PayPal does not offer any advertising or a platform which yields you any customers. You still earn more than you have to pay for this service and in the end you're still free to use the 24h push and have no costs at all You only need to invest in BC if you're aiming to increase your revenue and in that case should some of that money flow back to elitepvpers.

[todelu]

Originally Posted by Frosttall

Elitepvpers is aware of the price drops and the huge difference between the official price and the market value.

A new member on EPVP wouldn't know that = unfair.
A new member would do exactly as I did in the previous post.

Originally Posted by Der-Eddy

I think, with the new system it will be a bit more fair, especially for newer traders

Originally Posted by LeKoArts

The new system is a lot fairer.

^
Which makes these statements untrue.

Originally Posted by Frosttall

Everybody starts small and it's always the case, that you'll have to pay more at the beginning and the more successful you get, the bigger get the batches you're able to buy at once. This is always the case - the more you buy, the less you pay, the higher gets your margin. At first you start small and you grow with time.

Thought you guys were trying to get away from this?
Regarding to qoute below.

Originally Posted by Der-Eddy

Thats a valid point, but in that case user with more feedback/questions in their thread are more often bumped to the top => reach more users => more feedback/questions => rinse and repeat

Originally Posted by Der-Eddy

Well but PayPal does not offer any advertising .

^
Neither does EPVP.


The thing who started this discussion was this qoute :

Originally Posted by todelu

Tbh, see no advantage (other then epvp staff get more $)

Originally Posted by Frosttall

so what's your issue?

^
6 replies later, I still dont see any advantage for the users.
You took away something that was free, and made a paid option for it.
Without making it better for the user.
Unsure how you see it as a advantage.

Oh, and on a side note, there wasn't anything wrong on my facts I guess?

[MrSm!th]

There is some valid criticism and also some misinformation in this thread. I hope I can clear some things up.

Originally Posted by todelu

People leave feedback as they want.
And in my experince people wanna have their voice heard.
Or even if you ask for it, as i did here :
It's still voluntary.

If i did a great job, they wanna share it to others, if I did a terrible job or scammed someone, they wanna warn others.
Even tho mods will remove it

I really don't understand how you can think its unfair to ask for feedback on the work you've done.

I dont wanna be rude, but that comment, proving that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

That's the most important thing a company can ask for :

Feedback.

The reason I've reached success on EPVP, is due Im trying to make every client happy, and by customers leaving feedback and telling others, I get more clients.
If nobody would ever post some feedback, what would be the diffrence between me, and everyother booster (for example) on EPVP?

I don't see how posts not bumping your thread prevents your customers from giving you feedback? If you do your job well, they can still leave good comments in your thread. It just won't bump your thread, but you can do that yourself. Of course you may argue it's fair if popular, high-qualitiy shops/services get bumped more frequently due to more feedback being posted. That's right, this is one kind of fairness. Another one is everyone getting the same chance of getting to the frontpage regardless of the size and popularity of their thread.

Both views have their points. Ideally we want to do both, give new users a fair chance and give quality threads their deserved attention. But it's hard to achieve both at the same time. For now we have decided to choose the former way, but we are considering switching to the latter, making other users' replies bump the threads again (though it will stay impossible for the thread owner to bump their thread with posts, because that is what the button is for). But this is not fully decided yet. We may also try to find some kind of middle ground.

Originally Posted by todelu

You wont be able to bump your thread ealier then 24h.

You wont be able to do more then 1 work every 24h.

Before you could get new work by the old customer left feedback, and you could start on a new. Before 24h.

Simple as that.

Now you cant.

= less customers.

You are implying people won't find your thread just because it isn't bumped by your customers. I don't think this is true.

Originally Posted by supportsec

Well the idea isn't bad .
But how does it work with posting now ? We can post even bilion posts in our threads atm , since it doesn't bump thread anymore ?
Is posting an opinion about some service available now , since as mentioned above it doesn't bump the thread anymore and don't cause the mess?

Correct, posts do not bump threads at the moment. That doesn't mean you can spam them though. Also, scammer accusations are still forbidden for now, if that's what you mean by "opinion".

Originally Posted by todelu

50 bump coins cost 130 elite*gold
130 elite*gold cost 5 euro.
10 bump coins = 1 euro.
10 bump coins = 75% shorter time untill I can bump.
= 365 euros a year.
And that's only 1 thread.
If im not wrong, u can do that with 5 threads at once?
= 365x5 = 1825 euro / year.

Well, you sure don't have to use the maximum possible bonus for each thread. This would have been utterly impossible before by the way. You could only bump your threads once every 24 hours. Sure, other users' comments bumped your threads, but this was also abused to gain unfair advantages (by telling one's friends reply to the threads to keep them at the frontpage), which cannot be prohibited effectively without choosing the way we chose.

Originally Posted by todelu

This is 100% free on every other forum.

I call bullshit. Many other online marketplaces demand money for much less. Heck, some don't even let you actually sell your stuff without paying money to them. We offer everything for free: the infrastructure, the platform, the user base. You can bump your threads for free as well, just like before. It's only if you want to get an advantage over other users that you have to pay. And considering that active traders like you make much money using this platform, and can make even more money using this feature to bump their threads every ~2 hours (elite*gold trading forum), requiring you to buy coins to gain this advantage is not asking too much.

Originally Posted by todelu

I lose 1 euro for everytime I'd use the bump function, and wouldnt even be instant as before.

What do you mean by "wouldn't even be instant"?

Originally Posted by todelu

I've done that by buying premium, which wasnt forced on me.

As this is.

Benefits for premium users will follow. Also, we do not force bump coins on you. Feel free to not buy them and bump your threads just as often as before. Yes, feedback will not bump your threads (though, as I said, we are re-evaluating this decision), but this applies to everyone, hence giving everyone a fair share of the frontpage.

Originally Posted by todelu

Neither does EPVP.

That's plain wrong. You are using the BlackMarket itself as a way of advertising your goods and services. You can always just host your own web shop and do your business without the popularity you get here.

Originally Posted by todelu

6 replies later, I still dont see any advantage for the users.
You took away something that was free, and made a paid option for it.
Without making it better for the user.
Unsure how you see it as a advantage.

That's just you twisting the facts. Bumping your threads more frequently than once every 24 hours was not free, it was not possible at all. We introduced this as a paid option just now, there wasn't anything like that before. I know, you are referring to other users' bumping your threads with their feedback, but that's something completely different and it wasn't even removed due to the bump coins. It was removed, because we wanted a fairer distribution of time on the frontpage, we wanted to effectively make "gangbumping" impossible, and we wanted to prevent users from just ignoring the bump button and hence ignoring the bumping rules (because those rules can only be enforced automatically when only the button is used; and those rule violations produced a lot of work for our moderators). Granted, the latter is also achieved when only other users' replies bump your threads and your own replies don't. To be honest, we simply didn't consider this possibility before, but we do now.

The advantages for the user:
- a cleaner BlackMarket (also: less post hunting)
- less effort needed to bump your threads
- no more complex bumping rules to remember
- a paid option to shorten your waiting time
(- auto bumps and other features coming soon)