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Threads like this are what make me sad about the current state of the CO community. Everyone hoarding their information and at each others' throats about it. What actually prevents me from coming back into CO at all is the lack of information being public. To do it, I'd have to go and figure everything out myself from when I left to now which is quite a lot and I don't have the time to do so. Someone let me know when all this super secret information that any person with reasonable assembly knowledge can figure out becomes public.
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Old 04/30/2012, 09:01   #2
 
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Originally Posted by bone-you View Post
Threads like this are what make me sad about the current state of the CO community. Everyone hoarding their information and at each others' throats about it. What actually prevents me from coming back into CO at all is the lack of information being public. To do it, I'd have to go and figure everything out myself from when I left to now which is quite a lot and I don't have the time to do so. Someone let me know when all this super secret information that any person with reasonable assembly knowledge can figure out becomes public.
The reason that it's kept secret, it's because of the effort put into getting it.
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Old 04/30/2012, 12:06   #3
 
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The reason that it's kept secret, it's because of the effort put into getting it.
And that is why you have so much hostility in this community. There is no sense of sharing. Because it was hard to get? The effort? Glad you guys like working by yourselves. How many people come through this community who have a vast amount of knowledge but no way to obtain such small things (in the grand scale) such as the encryption info who just walk back out because they can't continue?

You know, I started a dev team many years ago (10+) for some dying game called Helbreath. We started it as open source and it was great. We made the version everyone used (even to this day, every source is derived from it). We did go closed eventually, but only because someone was trying to steal it and claim they wrote it and at the time there wasn't really anyone capable of coding so having it open source really didn't benefit the community. (was a fairly small community)

All in all though, if anyone had questions, wanted to know things, wanted to learn, anything was done because the community only lasted while people wanted to further development. To this day, I still answer questions and coding issues regarding a game developed in the 90s.

It was a tough call overall though. The community was saturated with servers because everyone wanted to host their own server (since it worked 99.99% in line with official) and having sources available meant they could do anything they wanted to (even if they didn't know how, the option was there) and that in turn somewhat hurt the community having many servers, but few players each. BUT, at the same time, there were plenty who came together to further everything which was only possible because everything was open.

If you want to talk about effort, we did it and had it open source for the longest. I actually came into CO right after I stopped work on HB. Played for a year or so then started development projects. Still surprised to this day how closed this community has ALWAYS been. Yea, there are a few releases every so often, but only because people rewrite code and such. Not many current projects being shared in full, if any. I had always intended to make my CO server project ( ) fully open source, but as I kept going, no one really expressed any interest in using C++ and CO had gotten really boring and monotonous so I moved on. Gave UG access first because (at the time at least) most of the people who contributed a lot were in there so if it had a chance to take off while still incomplete, that'd be the place. Since nothing happened, it went to public. Shame too. Shame no one likes sharing here either.

It's ok it was hard to get those encryption methods and such. So is developing that Linux kernel year after year yet each release continues to be free of charge.
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Old 04/30/2012, 12:19   #4


 
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You miss understand the state of the community 100%, there have been numerous attempts at open source projects, my wiki for example i asked for packet types and definitions and received maybe 10? In total for the duration of that project.

And the many open source server projects which have been around, how many participate in those? In the one i ran it was no one, no offers to help, nothing, the most i got was people talking in the discussion thread about what i was writing at the time.

So its not that people are closed off for the sake of it, people are closed off because theres no point in being open because the community is un-greatful for what they receive and refuses to put the effort in, with the exception of maybe 10/15 people.

This community is 95% want want want, no one is prepared to give give give any more.
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Old 04/30/2012, 12:45   #5
 
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You miss understand the state of the community 100%, there have been numerous attempts at open source projects, my wiki for example i asked for packet types and definitions and received maybe 10? In total for the duration of that project.

And the many open source server projects which have been around, how many participate in those? In the one i ran it was no one, no offers to help, nothing, the most i got was people talking in the discussion thread about what i was writing at the time.

So its not that people are closed off for the sake of it, people are closed off because theres no point in being open because the community is un-greatful for what they receive and refuses to put the effort in, with the exception of maybe 10/15 people.

This community is 95% want want want, no one is prepared to give give give any more.
I'm not saying attempts are never made. I did say some do try. Who cares about the ones that aren't grateful for the work you put in? You do it for those that benefit from it. If a single person learns from it, is helped by it, or makes something of it, don't you think it's worth it? If you think there's no point in being open, you're no true developer. Being closed NEVER helps. It only hurts. Exception might be when you're trying to profit off it. Since that isn't the case here, it still stands.
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Old 04/30/2012, 12:54   #6
 
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I'm not saying attempts are never made. I did say some do try. Who cares about the ones that aren't grateful for the work you put in? You do it for those that benefit from it. If a single person learns from it, is helped by it, or makes something of it, don't you think it's worth it? If you think there's no point in being open, you're no true developer. Being closed NEVER helps. It only hurts. Exception might be when you're trying to profit off it. Since that isn't the case here, it still stands.
But the problem is you have more MOTIVATION, if more people are interested and motivation plays a big role in this scenario. Also it actually is the case, because the bots are profiting of it and if the encryption got public anybody could make new bots and it would make TQ make new restrictions. TQ will make far more restriction regarding bot development, if bots were free and as long the new encryption is not public, then the bots are not free. I understand where you want to go, but it just won't work.
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Old 04/30/2012, 13:07   #7


 
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I'm not saying attempts are never made. I did say some do try. Who cares about the ones that aren't grateful for the work you put in? You do it for those that benefit from it. If a single person learns from it, is helped by it, or makes something of it, don't you think it's worth it? If you think there's no point in being open, you're no true developer. Being closed NEVER helps. It only hurts. Exception might be when you're trying to profit off it. Since that isn't the case here, it still stands.
Actually for the purpose for this thread that is the case, as the encryption is kept secret to reduce the amount of potential competition.

If you meant for the community in general then i disagree at this point. The only people in the community (you would know this if you were active) are those looking to get working code, to put a server up which has donations so that they can make profit on it.

Im sorry, but i like most people here are getting to the stage where we refuse to assist those who are looking to get code which works JUST to make a profit. No thanks given, no feedbacking improvements into the community, nothing but sheer greed.

This is highlighted even more so by people not participating in open source projects, as if they had a desire to learn these projects would be jumped on instantly.

Im sorry to say this but you are neive in believing that there are people in this community who are here purely to learn.
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Old 04/30/2012, 13:32   #8
 
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Actually for the purpose for this thread that is the case, as the encryption is kept secret to reduce the amount of potential competition.

If you meant for the community in general then i disagree at this point. The only people in the community (you would know this if you were active) are those looking to get working code, to put a server up which has donations so that they can make profit on it.

Im sorry, but i like most people here are getting to the stage where we refuse to assist those who are looking to get code which works JUST to make a profit. No thanks given, no feedbacking improvements into the community, nothing but sheer greed.

This is highlighted even more so by people not participating in open source projects, as if they had a desire to learn these projects would be jumped on instantly.

Im sorry to say this but you are neive in believing that there are people in this community who are here purely to learn.
I'm sorry to say but you're ignorant if you think everyone here is out to see the destruction of the community by means of attempting to profit off everything with nothing given back. This community was NEVER open to begin with. The first release was released because it was abandoned. Thus sparks the C# interest in this community. Release after release, but they are simply abandoned projects. To get the info I needed to start my server and proxy projects, I had to go to other forums which also had hidden sections requiring special access. I couldn't get much from here, and still most likely can't.

You know, open source developments don't require every single person to give input like you sound like you expect. What they do require is someone to put forth the extra effort to start it. You can't start it then expect others to jump in and help you finish it. Plenty of cases of that around here, even my own C++ source. You have to put in a LOT more effort and be prepared to do the entire thing on your own if it comes down to it. With hope, someone else, or multiple people, will take notice and help out.

If you're mad about how people try to profit off everything, you realize if it was all open, it'd end up as the better server made the most money right? You don't just get a good server by copy pasting a bunch of shit together. And by all reasons, your server would be superior since you're such a godly coder right? ("you" being those who safeguard these secrets) If you don't host a server yet work on one, why do you even care who makes a profit off it anyway? Isn't the purpose of coding it that someone uses it? If you want to make a profit where others are too, make a source and sell it or setup some royalty system. But don't deny anyone else the chance to make a better server by hiding all the secrets.

TQ would take more action? Gee, because they haven't already? I thought adding SSL was just a routine security addition. I'm willing to bet you the reason they do go to such great lengths to change the security is that they expect people to hoard the results. Wouldn't it be useless to change security if each time it was made public right after and it's as if it was never changed? Oh yea.. forgot about that. Since no one shares it, most people can't make bots or use the latest clients and such so everyone's greed benefits TQ more than this community.

Oh, and I must comment on the competition comment. You just need to go. You don't want competition? I'm sorry, but please tell me what DRIVES people to make better anything. Companies who have no competition are not compelled to offer better services, products, rates, anything. Why do they care? They have the only source of the product and everyone has no choice but to get it from them no matter the cost or lack of support. Suddenly competition arrives, that company that had the monopoly has to suddenly improve their service or lose everything. Are you telling me you're that one company who doesn't want to improve under the threat of competition so are hoarding the secrets so that no one else can steal your throne? Shameful.
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Old 04/30/2012, 13:39   #9


 
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Blah Blah Blah
You have no idea what this community is like, sorry but you just need to stop posting at this point.
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Old 04/30/2012, 14:00   #10
 
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You have no idea what this community is like, sorry but you just need to stop posting at this point.
What does that have to do with people trying to keep all the info to themselves? Other than absolutely nothing of course. You have to know exactly what this community is like to advocate for open source? Please, heed your own advice.
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Old 04/30/2012, 14:06   #11
 
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@bone-you , just a little comment on people making profit out of everything
when some coder here work his *** day and night for years to be able to create an awesome source with the highest patch while another kids just hosting public sources and winning thousands then this coder must be hell angry

long story short , when people was releasing the encryption and sources everyone was just hosting servers for a month and gain money then repeat it again and real coder don't get a **** , but now everyone just keep there own secrets , keep there own work , none help and none share , hopefully this will stop people from leeching

simple example : snow
he host public sources , ask for help to get stuff done , and get thousands every month

alot of other coders over here refuse to help anyone , which made someone ask for the encryption key for 500 usd , and if none sold to him he will offer even more cuz u got no idea how this makes profit to them

well about competition , Korvacs was right about that who got the encryption don't want a competition , u got no idea how each one who owns a paid bot hate the owners of the other paid bots and it don't drive them to get there bots/proxies better , it just turn to ddosing and attempts of hacking , imagine that the key is public now and everyone can release a proxy ?
imagine the key is public ? someone will release a highest patch costume source then leechers leech

but what if it kept a secret as Korvacs said ?
there won't be many high patch servers so u can figure out who is better ?
there will only be 3 proxies online ?
who will work will gain and who won't will have no chance ?
and that's what's going on now

welcome at CO-community
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Old 04/30/2012, 14:14   #12


 
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Continuing this discussion is pointless as you have no idea what the community is like, I am all for open source, i'm merely stating that the community is not in a position to embrace open source, and has no interest in contributing to releases any more.

It doesnt really matter what you think you know about the community, or what you consider should be done with open-source, i know what the community is like, and i know that open-source is entirely wasted here.

Whether you consider that incorrect or not is irrelevant really, oh and on the competition point, i know that the reason its kept secret is to prevent competition, because i know that the only thing on the developers minds is profit, and eliminating competition increases profit, feel free to ask the CoAI owner which he considers to be more important - sharing the encryption or profit.

Please stop posting, you twisting my words to fit your argument is embarrassing, i expect the next step you'll take is to correct my grammar...
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:17   #13

 
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:28   #14
 
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Korvacs seems to think he´s the comunity.
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:31   #15
 
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Korvacs just turned into a bad-*** after quiting mod, guess he had so much feelings inside him that he couldnt express during being a mod^.
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