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Old 04/30/2012, 16:33   #16
 
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Korvacs is right tho.



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Old 04/30/2012, 16:34   #17
 
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I bet ill get an infraction for that post, or some flaming from his side.

But my point is valid, he talks for the whole community, wich makes me sick.


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Old 04/30/2012, 16:36   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Y u k i View Post
Korvacs seems to think hes the comunity.
I seem to think that after 6 years here, active basically for 5 of those years i know the community better than most.
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:42   #19
 
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5 Years here, still I dont act like I know.. coz im sure we dont.


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Old 04/30/2012, 16:46   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Y u k i View Post
5 Years here, still I dont act like I know.. coz im sure we dont.
Well, sucks that you feel you dont know, i feel like i do having been active here for so long and slowly watching the community go down hill (fair enough it was never amazing, but it was better than this)
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:55   #21
 
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Thanks for staying formal.
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Old 04/30/2012, 16:56   #22
 
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5 Years here, still I dont act like I know.. coz im sure we dont.
So you don't agree with Korvics but instead of giving a real reason you just say you don't know?
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:01   #23
 
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Ill not agree with anyone here who generalizes a whole community.
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:03   #24
 
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Ill not agree with anyone here who generalizes a whole community.
You clearly didnt read my posts then, i state that theres somewhere in the region of 10/15 people who are not like the rest of the community.
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:10   #25
 
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First, here's my take on the situation. The reason why an open source project won't work in this community is because the majority have no respect and just want to profit off of other people's work. I don't mind helping those who have taken some initiative with what they're trying to accomplish, but as far as flat out giving someone an implementation, I won't (there are maybe 15 people still active who I would do this for). Nearly everything I've released for the community has been profited off of, and after 3-4 times of this happening, you learn to simply stop releasing things. The truth is, if someone would release an implementation of the current cryptography, it wouldn't be enough - there would still be loads of people asking how to implement it in their specific sources.


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Originally Posted by bone-you View Post
I had always intended to make my CO server project ( XSCO 2.0+ full ) fully open source, but as I kept going, no one really expressed any interest in using C++...
This is because sources were already available in C#, and no one expresses interest in learning a different language or exerting additional energy to work on something that doesn't have the most features or requires time to get it to work the way that they want. It's all about the end result, sadly.


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Originally Posted by bone-you View Post
I'm sorry, but please tell me what DRIVES people to make better anything. Companies who have no competition are not compelled to offer better services, products, rates, anything. Why do they care? They have the only source of the product and everyone has no choice but to get it from them no matter the cost or lack of support. Suddenly competition arrives, that company that had the monopoly has to suddenly improve their service or lose everything. Are you telling me you're that one company who doesn't want to improve under the threat of competition so are hoarding the secrets so that no one else can steal your throne? Shameful.
I agree; however, in an open source situation like we're describing, you'd be competing against yourself - plus I'm willing to bet that the majority would take your project and develop it themselves... so you'd basically be developing the project for other people. In this community, the demand and uniqueness of the "product" drives development, rather than competition. Competition in the private server community only divides up the limited player base.


I'm all for open source, but the theory (and it's been proven from previous open source projects) doesn't work in this community unfortunately.
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:21   #26
 
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Just felt like posting about the competition thing...

If this thread is just regarding the encryption, then all the points of getting rid of competition are invalid...

Proxys: So what if they get the encryption...LOL, They dont have the antibot changes and other minor changes, you think if they couldnt get the encryption they can break the antibot? Just lol..

Source: So what if they get the encryption..., most people who couldnt get it wont be able to get the DH changes...

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Old 04/30/2012, 17:31   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Korvacs View Post
Continuing this discussion is pointless as you have no idea what the community is like, I am all for open source, i'm merely stating that the community is not in a position to embrace open source, and has no interest in contributing to releases any more.

It doesnt really matter what you think you know about the community, or what you consider should be done with open-source, i know what the community is like, and i know that open-source is entirely wasted here.

Whether you consider that incorrect or not is irrelevant really, oh and on the competition point, i know that the reason its kept secret is to prevent competition, because i know that the only thing on the developers minds is profit, and eliminating competition increases profit, feel free to ask the CoAI owner which he considers to be more important - sharing the encryption or profit.

Please stop posting, you twisting my words to fit your argument is embarrassing, i expect the next step you'll take is to correct my grammar...
Profit obv.

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Originally Posted by diedwarrior View Post
Korvacs just turned into a bad-ass after quiting mod, guess he had so much feelings inside him that he couldnt express during being a mod^.
LOL'd


Ok so anyways, here's the sum up.
The bots are all trying to create as much room between themselves, and another bot popping up. The last thing we want is for another competitor to hit the scenes. Hence forth, why a lot of the informaiton we reverse is never made public.

The reason open source won't work is because there's not enough capable developers interested in developing a source for the sake of just having a fully functional source. It's about making the "best" most popular server. As someone said, if the project was open-source you would essentially be competeing against yourself because it's likely people would simply take your open-source content and privately develop upon it.

Your example with Linux is poor as it doesn't take much time to realize you as an individual cannot create "the best" (in some respects) operating system. It's too big of a project for one person to handle, thus being open-source is a good opt. if you hope to compete against a large company such as Microsoft. This DOES NOT APPLY to Conquer. You can as ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL take over Conquer and create "the best" server, you don't need a team of developers to do this.

While we have released limited informaiton, the information required to make a server is more than availible (besides the changes for the DH-Exchange, which aren't very hard to get yourself). I've helped people who I don't consider complete idiots do work-arounds for the new password encryption so that they don't need to figure it out themselves (thus being, they can create a server w/ out knowing it).

tl;dr
The people who are capable are tired of seeing the people who are incapable profit off of their work.

The ONLY reason CSV2 was released publicly was because it had already been leaked some of which was breaching the surface. That, and I was done with private servers for good.
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:33   #28
 
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srsly guys, heres it, if i had knowledge and was able to make such great sources, i'd never share 'em, idk what others think but i srsly think if you worked hard on something you would never share it.
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:37   #29
 
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the people who can are the small minority(3 people, at most?)
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Old 04/30/2012, 17:38   #30
 
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Mass quote time

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Originally Posted by Kiyono View Post
Feel free to request a rename.
Name is fine, thanks for restoring them.

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Originally Posted by Korvacs View Post
Continuing this discussion is pointless as you have no idea what the community is like, I am all for open source, i'm merely stating that the community is not in a position to embrace open source, and has no interest in contributing to releases any more.

It doesnt really matter what you think you know about the community, or what you consider should be done with open-source, i know what the community is like, and i know that open-source is entirely wasted here.

Whether you consider that incorrect or not is irrelevant really, oh and on the competition point, i know that the reason its kept secret is to prevent competition, because i know that the only thing on the developers minds is profit, and eliminating competition increases profit, feel free to ask the CoAI owner which he considers to be more important - sharing the encryption or profit.

Please stop posting, you twisting my words to fit your argument is embarrassing, i expect the next step you'll take is to correct my grammar...
Pointless to discuss it with you maybe. You're so hellbent on pressing your opinion of this community being so shitty, why are you even here still? I still post here every so often because I have hope that maybe someone will do something spectacular and share it with the community. Should I acquire the time, maybe that person might be me, but until then, I eagerly await someone to stop being so greedy and actually give. Maybe it'd spark something great.

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Originally Posted by I don't have a username View Post
Korvacs is right tho.
If Korvacs said "I'm wrong", then he'd be right.


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Originally Posted by Korvacs View Post
I seem to think that after 6 years here, active basically for 5 of those years i know the community better than most.
You don't know the beginning of this community. You can think you know everything there is to know about what kind of people post here and such, but if you ever administrated for a large forum, you'd know there are a lot of lurkers whom you may never know and plenty of people joining and leaving at any time. What the community was a year ago is not what it is today. Being active might give you a better sense of it, but you'll never know for sure especially in one of this size (even though it's not as big as other game sections of this forum)

In essence, what I'm trying to say is stop speaking for the community. You are not the appointed person to convey everyone's thoughts and feelings.

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Originally Posted by Korvacs View Post
Well, sucks that you feel you dont know, i feel like i do having been active here for so long and slowly watching the community go down hill (fair enough it was never amazing, but it was better than this)
Maybe if you weren't so against releasing things it'd be in better shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
First, here's my take on the situation. The reason why an open source project won't work in this community is because the majority have no respect and just want to profit off of other people's work. I don't mind helping those who have taken some initiative with what they're trying to accomplish, but as far as flat out giving someone an implementation, I won't (there are maybe 15 people still active who I would do this for). Nearly everything I've released for the community has been profited off of, and after 3-4 times of this happening, you learn to simply stop releasing things. The truth is, if someone would release an implementation of the current cryptography, it wouldn't be enough - there would still be loads of people asking how to implement it in their specific sources.
K. You don't want people to profit off of what you make. You don't belong on the theorhetical team then. Simple as that. You should join TQ's team instead where they can complain about YOU GUYS making money off THEIR hard work. Wait what? Role reversal? Wait... what? You steal from another company as a group of people trying to prevent TQ from making money (making pservers) and expect your own little group of people to be totally honest regarding you? It's all part of the territory. Take the good with the bad. Releasing anything will have its negative side with the leechers. There is nothing you can do about it (except hoard it of course) but it WOULD help those that are not leechers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
This is because sources were already available in C#, and no one expresses interest in learning a different language or exerting additional energy to work on something that doesn't have the most features or requires time to get it to work the way that they want. It's all about the end result, sadly.
I've come to terms with the failure of my attempt at my C++ server. I only use it now as an example for discussion. It failed though because I did not put enough effort into it, but also because I was all done playing CO at the time What also made me stop was how difficult it was to find anything out. Plenty of people had the answers, but few, if any, were willing to share them. Since I'm not a whiny needy "GIMME GIMME INFO" type of person, I stopped instead of annoying people for answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
I agree; however, in an open source situation like we're describing, you'd be competing against yourself - plus I'm willing to bet that the majority would take your project and develop it themselves... so you'd basically be developing the project for other people. In this community, the demand and uniqueness of the "product" drives development, rather than competition.
You're only competing against yourself if you too host a server. It doesn't work well like that. You have to be detached. How many people here are willing to do that? Willing to bet, almost none because anyone working on such an advanced project will want their own server to profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
I'm all for open source, but the theory (and it's been proven from previous open source projects) doesn't work in this community unfortunately.
It hasn't been tried properly. If it had, the project would still be going now even after most have abandoned it. Once everyone quits, it becomes a failure. Can't give it a week and be like "no one will help" and quit. Like I've said, you have to be prepared to work on it solo until completion (or at least with the group you start with).


ps. WHY IS MY NAME PURPLE NOW. I liked my black level2 name


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Originally Posted by InfamousNoone View Post
This DOES NOT APPLY to Conquer. You can as ONE SINGLE INDIVIDUAL take over Conquer and create "the best" server, you don't need a team of developers to do this.
Sure it applies to CO. How many people here have a source that they worked 100% on and NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD GAVE THEM ANY INFORMATION THAT LED TO ADVANCEMENT OF THAT SOURCE? How many people have cracked every piece of encryption ON THEIR OWN and then proceeded to build a fully working server from nothing? What's that answer? No one? hm. Sounds like a team effort to me.


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