Primal Conquer 1.0 | The Online Sensation

[blacbullet]

Originally Posted by turk55

Alright seems like you don't seem to properly understand the meaning so let's break it down:


These are two statements for one of the two conditions:
"Games that let you buy better gear" nobody can get better gear, so this statement can't be applied.

"allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate", yes and no. This heavily depends on the availability of the market. But let's assume it's available, that would mean you would have to spend hundreds if not thousands for VIP.

It's a vague description, not absolute, just one definition. If your a gamer you know what Pay2Win means right?
That's one definition from Urban dictionary, but the meaning is quite obvious actually. Not straight from Webster's Dictionary. You know, progressing faster than others by donating..

I pulled that definition up as an example of the idea of Pay2Win.. My point being that just because you can earn a VIP ingame doesn't mean you can't progress much faster by purchasing one. Therefore making the game Pay2Win.

Again bringing up money as if that's an issue for certain individuals. Wont name any names, but there are some I know personally on the server. Not everyone is poor and can't afford to shower your server owner with money to get what they need. Shouldn't even have to say this but, Obviously not instantaneously lol, yeah gotta set up that stall until it sells, and guess what? It always sells. I've never had an issue selling my VIPs for 40-45kk, sometimes 50 when someone is desperate.

Originally Posted by turk55

Let's continue to the next condition, remember it says "and", this means that both conditions need to be correct in order for it to pass.

"then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying." the answer to this is very simple. No, people who spend thousands for dollars won't have any advantage over people who don't spend a single cent.

In summary, the first condition passes but the second doesn't, therefor it isn't pay to win.

Again, this isn't from Webster herself. But the idea of Pay2Win has been around for a long long time. It basically means the ability for folks with big wallets to have an advantage over not so fortunate hardworking players ingame.
This is true on Primal Conquer, see previous post.

Originally Posted by turk55

You and I both know that the price range is 30-40kk and is generally sold for 35kk.

1 socket gear go for at least 30kk.
2 socket go for at least 300kk, but people pay way more to gain them.

And these are without the pluses and super gems.

I've sold several 30 day VIP in the 40-45kk range.
I've purchased 3 1 soc items from market within the past 2 weeks for 19, 23, and 25kk
Im not sure what it was but I for sure saw a 2 soc on market a day or so ago for 200kk in a stall.
Regardless it doesn't matter, these prices are still trivial for some of us.

It's obvious your trying your hardest to defend Moh and the server, no doubt your biased and don't want the server to appear in a bad light.

[Yupmoh]

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Sorry but that seems hypocritical to me. If players can achieve VIP by ingame means, why have it tradable at all? Because players wanted it right?
I wonder why exactly?

Far from hypocritical, Not all types of characters can do these activities as effectively, hence why the trading part is a must.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

By effort, I assume you mean to click and hop to the market, to turn 10$ into 35-60kk..(The worth of the 30 day VIP)

In a way, trading and handling the market is an effort sure, but what I meant was using the VIP to hunt and build up gear etc.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Urban Dictionary's definition of Pay2Win:

Again 1 VIP costs 10$ and can be resold at market for 40-60kk.
How fast can you make that much without selling a VIP?
1 soc gear sells for 19-25kk
2 soc gear sells for 100-200kk+


I think that we disagree on the definition of Pay2Win.
No I don't speak for the people, I never claimed to. This is my review and thoughts on the server at the moment. The only place where I can do so. Which as you can see, this is the only issue I have at the moment. I feel as though you are incorrect in assuming the server is not pay2win, when it very clearly is.

I think we do disagree and see Pay2Win differently yes, and that's what I've stated in my previous response.

By Pay2Win we mean that there will be no dealings under the table or us directly selling gear to players as many other servers do.

I also think you're over estimating how many VIPs are being sold on the market, however being in my shoes and in the place that I'm in, I'm accurately able to see how much is being circulated in that manner and it ain't much.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

It seems as though your assuming everyone is poor. To many of us, "thousands" is pocket change. I know very well what people are willing to spend for an advantage, and a good time, even on your server.
As far as you ensuring that it wouldn't happen is something I'd just have to take your word for. Unfortunately I do not know you, and you could easily be lying and no one would know it!

I could be lying and you can choose to believe what I say or refuse that's up to you, but take a look around, I've been actively developing this project for 3 years now updating on a daily/weekly basis and not profiting a single penny out of it. Why? Because I'm learning new things and that was my goal initially when I started this project, do you think someone that has shown this much dedication and has put this much effort would lie about his intentions? do you think I would use conquer to make money when I can (with my skill set) earn much more doing other more fun things?

Moving on, I understand players can spend tons of money to get an advantage, but here's a little inside scoop, primal has barely been making host costs and usually I step in to fund it so what you're discussing has never happened or else i wouldn't be doing that.

In addition to that, you should also take a look at our current rates, it's so easy to get sockets and plus up, I've seen people get to full 1 sock +4 in a week of play time without spending a single dime or going that route, it just doesn't make sense given the current rates/economy/vips purchased.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Edit: To those of you who think I'm angry or upset about what goes on ingame, You are wrong. I already stated I enjoy the game, even currently. Your jumping to conclusions. I've put in plenty of my own money into this server and have enjoyed it and still do! To be very clear here, I have no issue with the server being Pay-2-Win! My issue is lying about not being p2w. It's being deceptive and you know it.

As much as I'd like to believe you, you're obviously upset, you've even thrown a tantrum. "change this or i quit" and it's making me sad looking at it as a developer that has been actively trying to please players and give them something special.

And like I stated earlier, We have no intentions of being "deceptive" as you've described it, the system is as transparent as it can be and it's clear as day what goes on and the "lying" part is nothing but a misunderstanding on what we mean by Pay2Win.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Again bringing up money as if that's an issue for certain individuals. Wont name any names, but there are some I know personally on the server. Not everyone is poor and can't afford to shower your server owner with money to get what they need. Shouldn't even have to say this but, Obviously not instantaneously lol, yeah gotta set up that stall until it sells, and guess what? It always sells. I've never had an issue selling my VIPs for 40-45kk, sometimes 50 when someone is desperate.

This is quite odd to bring up because I have never been involved in any trades happening, nor that I would accept money from anyone in trade for gears, whoever told you that is a liar and has tricked you, I don't really need the money at all and this goes against everything I stand for, not to mention that fact that paypal does not work where I live.

About Omicron, ofc he's going to defend me, he's watched me for years and seen me write primal and work my ass off, he knows that I'm doing it for free and that I don't deserve to be questioned in this manner. Understandable and any decent human being would do that.

Moh

[blacbullet]

Originally Posted by Yupmoh

I think we do disagree and see Pay2Win differently yes, and that's what I've stated in my previous response.

By Pay2Win we mean that there will be no dealings under the table or us directly selling gear to players as many other servers do.

I also think you're over estimating how many VIPs are being sold on the market, however being in my shoes and in the place that I'm in, I'm accurately able to see how much is being circulated in that manner and it ain't much.

This is the core of our issue here. Your refusal to accept the fact that the server is Pay2Win even after me clearly laying out the definition.

Listen, you don't have to do deals under the table or sell gear directly for it to be true. You can try to sugar coat it and disguise it all you want. I'm not even claiming that your doing it in a malicious way, although your attitude towards denying it makes me feel otherwise, but that's not my issue like you seem to think it is.

Here it is, Idc how much money you make from the server, I don't even care if it's P2W, What I'm saying is that the way the server is currently set up, is P2W and your advertising it as if it's not. I've given several responses explaining this. Although I shouldn't have to...

The only reasoning that has given so far, is for why the server needs to be pay2win.. Ok? My issue is with the false advertising.

Originally Posted by Yupmoh

As much as I'd like to believe you, you're obviously upset, you've even thrown a tantrum. "change this or i quit" and it's making me sad looking at it as a developer that has been actively trying to please players and give them something special.

And like I stated earlier, We have no intentions of being "deceptive" as you've described it, the system is as transparent as it can be and it's clear as day what goes on and the "lying" part is nothing but a misunderstanding on what we mean by Pay2Win.

It's not a tantrum, more so a matter of principle. I have an issue with the deceptive advertising. It doesn't sit well with me playing on a server that lies in their advertising. I'm just disappointed really. There's no reason to be angry or upset. I can play on any server I want and have a good time. I just wanted to give my review on the server and if you fix it, great, if not, I can experiment with some other servers. I never actually expected you to fix it based on the replies you have given in the past on this topic.

Originally Posted by Yupmoh

This is quite odd to bring up because I have never been involved in any trades happening, nor that I would accept money from anyone in trade for gears, whoever told you that is a liar and has tricked you, I don't really need the money at all and this goes against everything I stand for, not to mention that fact that paypal does not work where I live.

No the trades were not directly made with you obviously. Not sure why you assumed that. I was simply saying that I know of individuals including myself that have sold a copious amount of VIPs for gold.

Good Luck with your server, this is my last post on this thread.

Edit:
My definition is this:
Using real world currency to gain an advantage or progress at a faster rate than those who do not.
That is Pay2Win right? I've been a serious gamer for over 16 years so far. I think I know what Pay2Win means at this point. Clearly the owner does not..
I'm speaking English right? I'm not having a stroke, or I hope not atleast?? Is this real life? LOL

So basically the owner is saying:
Yeah that's not pay2win They would have to spend thousands, and I promise it wont happen!.. Yeah nice rebuttal dude.

[Yupmoh]

Originally Posted by blacbullet

This is the core of our issue here. Your refusal to accept the fact that the server is Pay2Win even after me clearly laying out the definition.

Wrong definition, But if you think it's correct then hey that's you. I wont argue with you.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Listen, you don't have to do deals under the table or sell gear directly for it to be true. You can try to sugar coat it and disguise it all you want. I'm not even claiming that your doing it in a malicious way, although your attitude towards denying it makes me feel otherwise, but that's not my issue like you seem to think it is.

Not trying to sugar coat or disguise anything, this whole thing is a result of your misunderstanding of Pay2Win, nothing provided by our donation system is out of reach from the rest of the player base. but I guess to you that's not clear because you don't understand it fully.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

Here it is, Idc how much money you make from the server, I don't even care if it's P2W, What I'm saying is that the way the server is currently set up, is P2W and your advertising it as if it's not. I've given several responses explaining this. Although I shouldn't have to...

The only reasoning that has given so far, is for why the server needs to be pay2win.. Ok? My issue is with the false advertising.

If you're issue is with the "false advertising" (even though we don't agree that it's false) there I have cleared it up for you many times publicly so it cannot be fraud or false.

Originally Posted by blacbullet

It's not a tantrum, more so a matter of principle. I have an issue with the deceptive advertising. It doesn't sit well with me playing on a server that lies in their advertising. I'm just disappointed really. There's no reason to be angry or upset. I can play on any server I want and have a good time. I just wanted to give my review on the server and if you fix it, great, if not, I can experiment with some other servers. I never actually expected you to fix it based on the replies you have given in the past on this topic.


No the trades were not directly made with you obviously. Not sure why you assumed that. I was simply saying that I know of individuals including myself that have sold a copious amount of VIPs for gold.

Good Luck with your server, this is my last post on this thread.

I'm sorry this was obviously a tantrum, but then again I don't want to keep this going forever, we cannot force someone to understand our point of view when there's miscommunication between us, you'll just never understand that "lying" & "deceptive" are not how we do things but some people are just set in their own ways nothing will change them.

You've voiced your opinion/review of something, we attempted to clarify what we meant and yet you're not convinced and that's that. end of story.

All in all, I'm however glad you've had your fun, enjoyed your time and moved on, and know that primal will always be a home for you if you wish to return.

Best regards, good luck and farewell.

Moh

[Envy\Craft]

Let me offer my opinion of "Pay2Win"
Being able to buy items without it going back to the community to enhance your character to gain an edge over other players.

Example of pay2win: lets use retail conquer when Shop was added. You were able to purchase DragonBalls, convert to CPS, then dump into the shop (plus stones and drills) to enhance your character. The community did not see an once of this.

Example of not pay2win: Buying VIP, selling to the community, so that the community can benefit from something they may not have access to. This becomes both win/win for the community and the player who doesn't have as much time to hunt to gain silvers.

Sure, you can say that, because the player took a shortcut to get easy gold, he can save up and buy gear to purchase those items... But guess what, that gold goes back to the community, which allows those players to also get gear to advance their characters as well.

its not a 1 sided transaction, that allows "said" player to gain an edge over the community.

[krito777]

I can tell it's even more complexe since every server has diffrent VIP.
Lets first analyse this list.

- Automatically reloads your arrows without having to right-click in inventory. (LEGIT)
- When you have 10 meteors or 10 dragonballs in your inventory, you can right-click it to automatically pack them. (LEGIT)
- Drop notifications options to choose what you want enabled (LEGIT)
when you kill monsters that has been dropped ;(Now you see this Kills the F2P)
> Refined items
> Unique items
> Elite items
> Super items
> +1 Items (Compose)
> Meteors & Dragonballs (Without VIP you are very behind)
> 1 & 2 socket items (Socket)
> Quest items (any quest items involved in doing quests) (LEGIT & Useless)
> Misc (Emeralds, Sky Tokens etc) (LEGIT & Useless)
- Repair all gear with just one click without having to take the gear pieces off and repair them manually. (LEGIT but affecting on classic)
- Store normal gems in the StorageNPC (SHOULD EVERY1 HAVE THIS NOT LEGIT)
- Teleporting, you have unlimited teleports; main citys (TC, PC, AC, DC and BI) with no cooldown timer. (LEGIT but affecting on the natural gameplay, using Scrolls)

Lets go for the "SECRET PROBLEM" what you mentioned but i must give a site Notice this is a "ENTIRE CONQUER ONLINE PORBLEM": "VIP is TRADEABLE", people buying unlimited VIP and selling those.
In fact this is Pay2Win. Selling those VIP's for a huge ammount of Silvers/ Gold, compared to the old times, people buying dbs and selling trade those. It's the same story.

Here the Facts:
I bet if i go in the game i see in market 1x player selling 10 VIP'S, 60kk each = 600kk = (3x 2sock items)
Is that broken or not? OFC... that guy is somewhere right.

Fixing this ISSUE easy, the magic worth for this problem is "LIMIT" every verified player can buy 3x VIPS each month. (example)
Even if you want to sell dragonball its LEGIT but do not forget the magical word "LIMIT". The People need just to know, you taking care of your game or not? If you greedy the people won't trust and leaving the server.

So and back to analyses of the VIP LIST, since im neutral coz some will maybe think this answer was an attack, and they may asking the supports to delete my Comment. (as in past)

I can tell you some other server had even worse VIP's
Selling (VIP mining) that is not legit even broken. (5$ each, you buy 10x of those)
And you put than miners in MINING, you will make 500 supergems a week.

Generally since VIP came in game, players are LAZY. If you don't feel like wanting to play a fair game, and working for your gears, play a card game, or go to casino.

Craft has compared it to Conquer Orginal selling, dbs, +1 stones , drills. The items don't matter, but the money in the game is the point and the limitation of the tradeable items in the shop.
Put a limit, otherwise you can sell dragonballs +1 stones straight away

VIP can be made better for sure, if we saw this list. There a few criteries you just need to give attention and it will be fine.

- Such as Payment Methods
- Such as what is legit and what not
- VIP tradeable? (limit will be needed)

Imagane there is Conquer server without any VIP every1 has same way to play, would be nice. That is old school, but in same time no (bulkers for db and +1 stone drills ect.)
THAT would be a paradise.
BUT then the question is, would you guys donate such a server weekly, monthly?
I think no.

Thats why mate, accept VIP is a kind of basic security, which protect the server getting down.

[Ultimation]

Originally Posted by krito777

I can tell it's even more complexe since every server has diffrent VIP.
Lets first analyse this list.

- Automatically reloads your arrows without having to right-click in inventory. (LEGIT)
- When you have 10 meteors or 10 dragonballs in your inventory, you can right-click it to automatically pack them. (LEGIT)
- Drop notifications options to choose what you want enabled (LEGIT)
when you kill monsters that has been dropped ;(Now you see this Kills the F2P)
> Refined items
> Unique items
> Elite items
> Super items
> +1 Items (Compose)
> Meteors & Dragonballs (Without VIP you are very behind)
> 1 & 2 socket items (Socket)
> Quest items (any quest items involved in doing quests) (LEGIT & Useless)
> Misc (Emeralds, Sky Tokens etc) (LEGIT & Useless)
- Repair all gear with just one click without having to take the gear pieces off and repair them manually. (LEGIT but affecting on classic)
- Store normal gems in the StorageNPC (SHOULD EVERY1 HAVE THIS NOT LEGIT)
- Teleporting, you have unlimited teleports; main citys (TC, PC, AC, DC and BI) with no cooldown timer. (LEGIT but affecting on the natural gameplay, using Scrolls)

Lets go for the "SECRET PROBLEM" what you mentioned but i must give a site Notice this is a "ENTIRE CONQUER ONLINE PORBLEM": "VIP is TRADEABLE", people buying unlimited VIP and selling those.
In fact this is Pay2Win. Selling those VIP's for a huge ammount of Silvers/ Gold, compared to the old times, people buying dbs and selling trade those. It's the same story.

Here the Facts:
I bet if i go in the game i see in market 1x player selling 10 VIP'S, 60kk each = 600kk = (3x 2sock items)
Is that broken or not? OFC... that guy is somewhere right.

Fixing this ISSUE easy, the magic worth for this problem is "LIMIT" every verified player can buy 3x VIPS each month. (example)
Even if you want to sell dragonball its LEGIT but do not forget the magical word "LIMIT". The People need just to know, you taking care of your game or not? If you greedy the people won't trust and leaving the server.

So and back to analyses of the VIP LIST, since im neutral coz some will maybe think this answer was an attack, and they may asking the supports to delete my Comment. (as in past)

I can tell you some other server had even worse VIP's
Selling (VIP mining) that is not legit even broken. (5$ each, you buy 10x of those)
And you put than miners in MINING, you will make 500 supergems a week.

Generally since VIP came in game, players are LAZY. If you don't feel like wanting to play a fair game, and working for your gears, play a card game, or go to casino.

Craft has compared it to Conquer Orginal selling, dbs, +1 stones , drills. The items don't matter, but the money in the game is the point and the limitation of the tradeable items in the shop.
Put a limit, otherwise you can sell dragonballs +1 stones straight away

VIP can be made better for sure, if we saw this list. There a few criteries you just need to give attention and it will be fine.

- Such as Payment Methods
- Such as what is legit and what not
- VIP tradeable? (limit will be needed)

Imagane there is Conquer server without any VIP every1 has same way to play, would be nice. That is old school, but in same time no (bulkers for db and +1 stone drills ect.)
THAT would be a paradise.
BUT then the question is, would you guys donate such a server weekly, monthly?
I think no.

Thats why mate, accept VIP is a kind of basic security, which protect the server getting down.

TL;DR

[EliteMagus]

I advocated to frank chen and engputer young to let NYK and myself fund/buy rights to a $15 dollar official server back in like 2004. I comprehend the sentiment of wanting a level playing field for ALL players. I would stand behind such a server - any time. I have floated the idea in p-server design teams for YEARS. I have been a part (with luck) of some 8+ server developments by now? NOT ONE MONTLHY. Not one. The idea itself tends to sink each time I float it.

[krito777]

Originally Posted by Ultimation

TL;DR

Mate im the "Conquer Hero", my words have weight.

People asking me undercover for some tips. Just in this forum they do not show up, for some reason since your Team has used an strategy of oppression.

Do not forget, in past every hater against me, "failed" nowdays.
A few haters stole my ideas and not mentioned me for that.


An global human problem nowdays hypocrisy and denunciation, i call this loser society. These are people who do not indulge, so that they represent themselves better.

And you exactly one of those.

[sadi12]

The question about p2w is much more complex. This term is discussed to death in a lot of MMOs and people can't agree. It's best to agree to disagree and move on.


OP: I would say that there is no deception at all. I played on the server very casually and stil got full 1soc super after 1month. Didn't buy VIP or anything.
But I think people see it like a race. 1 guy who buys VIP vs 1 who doesn't. I think this is a wrong way to look at it, but I understand the logic. The guy who buys VIP will progress faster. Like no matter what you can't catch up to the guy who bulks VIP. I think people see this as P2W.

[Ultimation]

Originally Posted by krito777

Mate im the "Conquer Hero", my words have weight.

People asking me undercover for some tips. Just in this forum they do not show up, for some reason since your Team has used an strategy of oppression.

Do not forget, in past every hater against me, "failed" nowdays.
A few haters stole my ideas and not mentioned me for that.


An global human problem nowdays hypocrisy and denunciation, i call this loser society. These are people who do not indulge, so that they represent themselves better.

And you exactly one of those.

the only thing you are, is delusional

[Kujiku]

Cool

[zabegan34]

Do the team shared exp have significantly have been dropped?

[Yupmoh]

Originally Posted by zabegan34

Do the team shared exp have significantly have been dropped?

No, However Experience gain formula was rewritten so that you'd need to power level in the correct zones for optimal experience. This change was made a long time ago.

[CrimsonFart]

Basically the only good server out there rn after all these years.