This is why the server concepts suck.

Hi,

in this topic I want to talk about the fail concepts of basically every private server out there. I don't know what the server owners think they do. Do they even think? I highly doubt.

I will list reasons why the majority (100%) of the servers nowadays suck so hard.

1) CTF - Capture the Flag

This system might be ok in a CHN only server. Adding it in a server with EU is a crime. What is CTF about? Right, getting kills as a single player. You basically get rewarded for your personal performance in a party (!), fuck the others. Selfish gameplay!!!

Imagine, just imagine, you play a str bard/cleric. How are your chances to get a kill? Almost non-existant I would say. Supporting roles in fact get punished because no kills mean no rewards for them. Yay nice, I healed, ressed, buffed my pt members but in the end I'm standing there with nothing valuable.

All in all CTF is leading to a small build variety as everyone will do a build that can perform good as a solo char to get many kills. That's why most servers mainly see Warriors and Wizards (both as cleric sub). More problems about this: strong players will demand all the kills for themselves, thus getting even stronger. New players almost don't have a chance to catch up.

So please do me a favor: Completely delete CTF. There is a much better pvp system in SRO already which gives every build a chance and even rewards the "losers". Party performance is what counts there - not the selfish gameplay. It is called Battle Arena. Never heard of it?

2) Uniques

Rewarding unique kills with Silk, coins or items is another NO-GO. It will lead to the same scenario as described above. What players will get the kills? Yes, the ones with most damage. Again, this will lead to small build variety as in 90% of the cases Wizards will get kills. Adding STR-uniques (I never understood that) isn't helping much either because there will only be 1-2 STR classes to get all the kills. No, bladers and 1h-Warriors probably don't count to them. Strong players getting even stronger.

It's better to make uniques dungeon-based. That way every class can get rewards from uniques either solo or in a party. Similar to Forgotten World or Jupiter Temple.

3) "job based"

To be honest, I can't stand reading this phrase anymore. Sure, rewarding jobbing can be nice. In fact, jobbing is getting abused massively. Everyone having his own caravans by using multiple accounts the same time. The person with most resources and time wins. Casual players and newcomers hardly can catch up or are in fear of getting robbed permanently. The original purpose of jobbing was to interact with other players from the server. So basically you picked 1 job and other players were helping you as a trader, hunter or thief.

In many threads I also see rewards for "job kills". It's as stupid as the CTF system (for more details read above). Same goes for "honor buffs" for the top x jobbers. Casual players will never be able to get these buffs. I would prefer servers where it is possible that everyone reach the same things.

4) overall 1v1 focus

Majority of servers reward solo, selfish single gameplay. Why there is no EU only server for example with PTPVP tournaments and party-based dungeons and BA?

Silkroad is called an MMORPG which means you actually would need to interact with the other players in the server in order to "succeed".

5) Silk as main currency

Often server advertising threads claim that ingame gold for example will have it's value and is the only currency. In fact, if items are exchangeable, silk (or real money) will become the main currency. Especially during the beginning of a server's life cycle the donating seems endless. Big-wallet-guys try to spend tons of silk on the "best" items to be the "strongest" very quickly. In combination with the reward-for-kill-features this will make sure that mainly the "strongest" (big-wallet-guys) will stay on top...

There actually are more points to be mentioned but it would take long time to write everything down. Just to give you an idea of a few: donator vs. non-donator imbalance, idiotic skill changes and "balance attempts", dozens of different sox-types or only-1-fortress.

The End.

Am I the only one who thinks like this?

I agree, but one of the other reasons is that everyone wants HWID and multiclient to be enabled --> which CAN lead to playing solo and doing everything on their own.

A MMORPG should be fun when you're able to obtain stuff as a team. Of course it should be possible to obtain stuff solo if you don't like to participate with a guild or mates but.. at the end teamwork SHOULD be one of the reasons which you can be proud of when achieving it.

I want to thank you for wrapping all this up. But there are also points which need to be highlighted. So, we are talking about a group of players who could not move on to different games after all these years, mainly because they love the game they have been playing for almost a decade as it is/it has always been. They have become so close-minded that they won't even appreciate the good and wise changes that are offered to them.

I personally agree all the subjects you brought up. However altering things is kind of a gambling private server owners need to face. It really is hard for them to come up with such innovative ideas and satisfy the current player base at the same time.(There have been only few private servers out of hundreds that managed to make drastic changes and still reach a considerable player amount.) So as for owners, they will either take some wise suggestions like the one you wrote down here into consideration, work on it then come up with something new, or they will take the easy and riskless way out and do similar stuff like the preceding servers did. Because as far as owners are concerned, plausible thing to do is repeating the similar features that are proven to be "player-gathering".(Sad but true)

The system is simple. You have 2 options to succeed in a server. Be a donator or play hard with many chars as possible using your brain. Most of the players nowdays are donators and its hard to catch their performance as a nondonator. The main value in silkroad now is real money- respective Silks. There is no single server that is playtowin, especially those with silk scrolls. Servers are made for money. Server owners doesnt really care for the fair gameplay unless it doesnt make players to leave or stop donating.
Everything now is complaining about server features, events, updates and unfair competitions. Anyway server owners are not the problem. Time ago we all were enjoying just the game. Silkroad community nowadays is just bored of doing same sh*t over and over again. And you know what? Im even disgusted if i have to join a new server again- lvl up again, do my set again, farm,farm,farm... until the server get closed and i join another again.
Silkroad is just dead, there is no fun in it. Im playing sometimes just because the good memories from my childhood nothing more.

Funny how anyone thinks he could make a non-P2W MMORPG these days.
Please define your "win" in Silkroad. What is it that makes you win? Because basically every game out there is P2W. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Silkroad was P2W from day one so I don't know why is everyone complaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icowwww90 The system is simple. You have 2 options to succeed in a server. Be a donator or play hard with many chars as possible using your brain.

Yes, what you describe is the current system. That's why I listed the reasons what is going wrong there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icowwww90 Server owners doesnt really care for the fair gameplay unless it doesnt make players to leave or stop donating. Everything now is complaining about server features, events, updates and unfair competitions. Anyway server owners are not the problem.

So you basically say, that server owners simply "copy" the "successful servers"? That might be true but even the "successful servers" all have that shitty features. So both the server owners and the community that joins a "succesful server" are the problem. Anyway, the problems I listed above, are obvious things. I mean, you should get to the same conclusion like me just by thinking about it. It's logical thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icowwww90 Im even disgusted if i have to join a new server again- lvl up again, do my set again, farm,farm,farm... until the server get closed and i join another again.

Someone is forcing you to play an online game?^^
I never joined any of that "successful" servers because just from reading the ad thread I could say that their systems are "wrong". Personally, my definition of an successful server probably is different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ​Exo Funny how anyone thinks he could make a non-P2W MMORPG these days. Please define your "win" in Silkroad. What is it that makes you win? Because basically every game out there is P2W. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Silkroad was P2W from day one so I don't know why is everyone complaining.

Sorry, but I don't get your point. Your arguments are not really related to my topic I think. Though I agree: players that donate obviously have and should have an advantage by getting things done faster. That's normal but it still should be possible to get item mall stuff from doing ingame activities too (limited per day/week/month etc.). That way non-donaters can reach "the same things". They just need to invest a lot more time and resources for that.

Catching up to the active/old players is kinda hard/impossible in any MMORPG (or the ones I played so far). So, what is your advice?

I'm actually interested if you'd like to suggest some stuff just add me on Skype.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow* Catching up to the active/old players is kinda hard/impossible in any MMORPG (or the ones I played so far). So, what is your advice? I'm actually interested if you'd like to suggest some stuff just add me on Skype.

Well, I have a few things in mind.

1) Don't have too high requirements for getting endgame equipment. Personally something like the amount of tokens needed in SRO-R for 8d sun set would be appropiate if you ask me.

Also 1 type of endgear equipment only. Nobody is interested in 3 different types of sox for example.

2) Give players a choice on how to obtain their equipment. I would use some kind of token system too. The tokens you would get from many different ingame activities (both solo- and party-based). For example, repeatable quests, finishing dungeons like FGW, Job temple, BA. That way (new) players can pick the way they want to get it. Questing and FGW is most helpful for newcomers as they don't depend on the top players.

What I see in most servers is that they force you to do activity x, activity y and activity z. In these servers you MUST do all of them otherwise you can't get a good set. This is wrong I think (epsecially for activites where the strong players get even stronger...).

3) Have high EXP until a level which is about 10-15 Lvs lower than cap lv. That way, new players have chance to find PTs and level with older players.

4) Give out essential silk items (Immortal Stones, Devil Spirit, 7-Day-Premiums, etc.) on regular basis. This items should be at least account-bound. For example a good way it is to give out Immortal stones for finishing Forgotten World dungeon (maybe more stones for higher difficulty). Another good way is login events (but you must punish/ban multiclient abusers).

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Originally Posted by Finsterlord Someone is forcing you to play an online game?^^

No xD, my wrong. I meant that if i want to play that beautiful game i have to do those things. No1 is forcing me, well exept my mom and dad. They force me to play silkroad 24/7 and i cant even sleep lel.

First of all, I can't understand what "reward for kill" is doing in team activities, such as jobbing or even CTF, when you participate in a party.

I will give a few examples: features of various servers.
All these are quotes from server advertisiment threads.

Quote:

CTF & Arena - Enabled for silver coins, limited to lvl 80 Silver coins: you can get them from CTF (Per each kill), Battle arena...

Quote:

Jewels limit from CTF/BA: Unlimited. Keep in mind that from CTF/BA you will receive jewel. Jewels are needed in order to purchase seal of moon equipment. You will receive 1 jewel per ctf player kill. You will receive 1 jewel for capture the flag win. You will receive 7 jewel for battle arena win. You will receive 1 jewel for battle arena defeat.

In team activities, the only thing that matters in the end is if your team wins or loses. Impact can be made in many different ways. Damage is not the only thing you can do, did you know? Probably not.

• right use of buffs to increase survivability of party members
• healing
• interrupting and disabling opponent players that try to deal damage
• interrupting and disabling opponent players to stop them from buffing, healing etc
• positioning
• coordination
• and much more

But why only blunt damage is rewarded?

It is only ok to reward kills in activities (events, content) where people play alone, without a PT, such as individual survival arena.

Quote:

You can get job points by killing players in job mode. 1 kill = 1 job point.

Same here, unless jobbing alone.



part2, "catching up" term.
I've noticed that most people care about it. Often you can see questions in server advertisiment threads like: "too late to join?"
Personally, I don't mind joining a server even if it's 5 years old, as long as its features are nice.

But now I want to talk about it, about catching up. Let's say, it means making decent equipment. If so, then it depends how the best equipment can be achieved in a server.

The easiest way for new players would be getting items from PVE, such as dungeons. This way they don't have to PVP against highstatted players.

It is also ok for new players to get items from PTPVP team based activities, such as battle arena, as long as they have a basic set and equipment difference between basic and average/top is not too huge. Dealing damage and getting kills won't be easy, but it's not needed in TEAM activities - as I mentioned above, impact can be made in many different ways.

And now the worst case scenario. Which actually happens in many private servers around here. To get the end game items you need to... kill. Using basic set against high statted players. Then it really becomes impossible to catch up, even I can say it! And then you wonder why number of players in a server goes only down with time?

Maybe in server where getting end-game items doesn't require killing, and supporting is also ok (or being able to get items from PVE, which is even better), there won't be any catching up problem, and people would be joining such server even if it's already 2 years old. Think about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finsterlord Well, I have a few things in mind. 1) Don't have too high requirements for getting endgame equipment. Personally something like the amount of tokens needed in SRO-R for 8d sun set would be appropiate if you ask me. Also 1 type of endgear equipment only. Nobody is interested in 3 different types of sox for example. 2) Give players a choice on how to obtain their equipment. I would use some kind of token system too. The tokens you would get from many different ingame activities (both solo- and party-based). For example, repeatable quests, finishing dungeons like FGW, Job temple, BA. That way (new) players can pick the way they want to get it. Questing and FGW is most helpful for newcomers as they don't depend on the top players. What I see in most servers is that they force you to do activity x, activity y and activity z. In these servers you MUST do all of them otherwise you can't get a good set. This is wrong I think (epsecially for activites where the strong players get even stronger...). 3) Have high EXP until a level which is about 10-15 Lvs lower than cap lv. That way, new players have chance to find PTs and level with older players. 4) Give out essential silk items (Immortal Stones, Devil Spirit, 7-Day-Premiums, etc.) on regular basis. This items should be at least account-bound. For example a good way it is to give out Immortal stones for finishing Forgotten World dungeon (maybe more stones for higher difficulty). Another good way is login events (but you must punish/ban multiclient abusers).

To reply to point 4. What are the server owners supposed to earn? Im all in for giving players a good experience but you are totally forgetting that owners need to make money to run their servers. Yes it is part of making a succesfull server.

Also a dynamic gameplay like you described requires a shitton of work and possibly source edits like giving the player dynamic choices of how they would like to play.

Giving out stuff like immos wont change the selfish attitude as people will just go there for themselves. Yes you can reward the whole party which will cause in a flood of these items > making alchemy not so special > economy collapse > no items being sold/bought > bye server.

Your ideas are cool but not to be imagined in a real server. Which server owner do you expect to make this work? Sro has barely devs left and who will take this risk? So much work and then probably fail in the month.

Someone has to start doing this and others will follow but who will take that step.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ​Exo Funny how anyone thinks he could make a non-P2W MMORPG these days. Please define your "win" in Silkroad. What is it that makes you win? Because basically every game out there is P2W. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Silkroad was P2W from day one so I don't know why is everyone complaining.

^ this.

Even NCWest (<- Blade and Soul server and game provider) redecided their:
"we won't make nor implement any kind of pay2win aspect, mechanic or even shop items to our game"-statement.
2016/05 that dream died along with their attitude.
Now having ingame-shop chests/keys, or wth that system got called, which do offer some heavy advantage against other players, environmental stuff, also unbalancing game stats (PVP wise), since you ain't preying for RNG getting the highest available stat on a specific item. It is like magic pop with forced "must purchase", since the grind is stupidly high.

So, you guys think that making a SRO pServer, based on a moronic "Grind2Win/Play2Enjoy" ideology will still make the deal? Not anymore.
Those times are over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinxtra Im all in for giving players a good experience but you are totally forgetting that owners need to make money to run their servers. Yes it is part of making a succesfull server.

Server owners would make money by selling stuff from item mall, of course. The free silk items I mentioned are 1) obtainable limited (e.g. you would get 1x 7-day-premium per month, 7-day-grab pet) and 2) account-bound to prevent massive abuse. On a side note: That idea with immortal stones was just an idea. Maybe someone else has a better idea for that. You wouldnt be able to get unlimited immortal stones anyway. For that you need to buy them from item mall.

However, I think this would help to keep non-donators and casuals motivated - or at least create the illusion to be able to keep somewhat up with regular donators. More motivated players might be willed to donate in future too. On top, if you keep both donators and non-donators interested in playing your game, then it's popularity most likely will rise. I only see a win-win situation for the players and the server itself.

If you want to be stronger in a short time, there probably is no way around to buy things from item mall regularly (such as 4-week-premium or a 4-weeks-grab pet etc.).

I hope that helped you to understand my point of view. :)

I'm all in for making something that works both ways for donators and non donators such as your suggestion for daily quests, it's totally do-able, but I very much doubt that people will appreciate any kind of effort no matter how big or small it is to balance things out, that's just what the community has grown to be, only those who are blind from the truth still go on.

In my own useless opinion, some of the main many reasons that lead to the death / failure of most silkroad servers are:

1. having completely nothing new in every *new* private server being opened nowadays

2. depending on donations as the only / main source of income to pay server bills, ignoring player count, which brings us back to no.1...

3. lack of experience from silkroad owners present nowadays, and yea i mean all of them.

4. getting scammed? lol but yes as foolish as it sounds, yet it CAN be limited.

5. lol, if we kept counting we'll never stop so i think i'll stop here for now.
however I've been thinking of having something new to try, but i also need suggestions, ideas or whatever.

this includes having some cool, never tried ideas like linking website to the game-play. having new events coded in an event bot, etc..

if you need to know what I've been working on or willing to help, just send me a private message or search me on skype: Zaabner, oh and trust me, IT IS COOL :p

About me: i'm just somehow good at C#, php, javascript and sql. i think it is the perfect match for the needs of a private server.