Natural TBM

Hai,

Was wondering if you could remove the natural TBM rating, I think it's not useful, cause most of the time, trades end up with + or -, yea there are others who add natural, but think about it, if the trade went well that it should end up with a positive else then a -, done!

It's 'neutral', not natural ;)

I actually don't see a reason, why it should be removed. If I send someone a paysafecard and he's giving me my goods (for example a gamekey) 2 days later than he promised, I'd give him a neutral rating, because the trade was neither good (long waiting time) nor bad (I received my goods). I think a negative TBM rating should stay a signal for scamming, not for successful trades (with little inconveniences).

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Originally Posted by Ares​ It's 'neutral', not natural ;) I actually don't see a reason, why it should be removed. If I send someone a paysafecard and he's giving me my goods (for example a gamekey) 2 days later than he promised, I'd give him a neutral rating, because the trade was neither good (long waiting time) nor bad (I received my goods). I think a negative TBM rating should stay a signal for scamming, not for successful trades (with little inconveniences).

Yea but, a word is a word, when someone sells services or whatever, he should serve in time, exceptions are possible, like once I needed to buy gold, then I checked my skrill acc, everything was perfect, 1 day later a guy pmed for an offer, he sent the gold and locked em till I send the cash, opened ma skrill and found out that there is something wrong, so I gave him the gold back, it might be a bad example, but case it's a service, if the seller is trusted and he had problems and gave your goods late, you could be nice and give him a +, cause he didn't scam/lie.

So, you may be confused that first I sad a word is a word then I said you could be nice, that depends on the member, and I totally agree with the be nice instead of giving a trusted user a 'neutral' or a -, we can choose the nice green + ;)

Maybe that's your sight, but I won't rate a trade positive if I'm not completely satisfied with the procedure. I mean that's like there would be only two options to assess a purchase on sites like Amazon. Would you give 5 stars if you like the product, but the ordering procedure was kinda complicated? I'm sure you would only give 3-4 stars and there is not much difference between this rating system and the system on elitepvpers.

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Originally Posted by Ares​ Maybe that's your sight, but I won't rate a trade positive if I'm not completely satisfied with the procedure. I mean that's like there would be only two options to assess a purchase on sites like Amazon. Would you give 5 stars if you like the product, but the ordering procedure was kinda complicated? I'm sure you would only give 3-4 stars and there is not much difference between this rating system and the system on elitepvpers.

Amazon's stars system is made for not only the speed, while TBM's is made for the trust, a guy with a neutral TBM would be less trusted then a guy with a + tbm ;), when someones enters a thread for a service they look on 3 things (TBM's, the posts joining date etc..., and the feedback), and when someone looks on the TBM they think of if the dude is trusted or not

I think that how negative/neutral ratings are perceived seems kinda odd, but that will not change by removing one rating type completely.

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Originally Posted by Karim- Amazon's stars system is made for not only the speed, while TBM's is made for the trust, a guy with a neutral TBM would be less trusted then a guy with a + tbm ;), when someones enters a thread for a service they look on 3 things (TBM's, the posts joining date etc..., and the feedback), and when someone looks on the TBM they think of if the dude is trusted or not

If I enter a thread, I'm looking for the offer, the price and the feedback. I don't care how many TBMs someone has or how long he's already registered, because I know all types of scamming and I know, that I won't be scammed because I trade the way I do, not the way he does. I'd neither give a guy first, who has 1 TBM and is registered since today, nor a guy who has 500 TBMs and is registered for 5 years. Same goes for recording a trade.
Furthermore I don't know what's so bad with a neutral TBM. I mean he has no negative TBM => He didn't scam, so why shouldn't I trust him (if I'd care about the TBMs...).

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Originally Posted by Ares​ If I enter a thread, I'm looking for the offer, the price and the feedback. I don't care how many TBMs someone has or how long he's already registered, because I know all types of scamming and I know, that I won't be scammed because I trade the way I do, not the way he does. I'd neither give a guy first, who has 1 TBM and is registered since today, nor a guy who has 500 TBMs and is registered for 5 years. Same goes for recording a trade. Furthermore I don't know what's so bad with a neutral TBM. I mean he has no negative TBM => He didn't scam, so why shouldn't I trust him (if I'd care about the TBMs...).

So now you are saying you are not looking at the TBMs, so why are they made?

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Originally Posted by Karim- So now you are saying you are not looking at the TBMs, so why are they made?

He was just mentioning an example about the way how he usually does Trades, and it doesn't really matter trading with an old member with a high TBM rating Or a new registered member, Since you follow your own steps while trading which prevents you from getting scammed and ofc with the experience. that's what he meant ^^
Of course, everyone checks the TBM it makes you more comfortable with trade.
About the ''neutral'' part, I see also no reason to remove it, since it means that the trade didn't go as it was supposed to be and also you didn't get scammed.

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Originally Posted by Karim- So now you are saying you are not looking at the TBMs, so why are they made?

To have a reference if you want to become a middleman I guess.

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Originally Posted by Ares​ To have a reference if you want to become a middleman I guess.

No, of course trade ratings are meant to indicate how trustworthy a person is and how well past trades with this person went. Whether the idea was successfully realized is another question.

A bit off-topic:
If everyone had your attitude ("I will never give first"), trading wouldn't work at all. Trading always needs a minimum of trust and the rating system was meant to provide that and actually it does a bit. The probability of being scammed by a user with 500 positive ratings is indeed less than of being scammed by one with no or even negative ratings. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to be scammed by the former and it doesn't mean that the latter always is a scammer; this is just a common misconception.

Still, to get back to actual topic, I don't see a reason to remove neutral ratings either. They don't really harm the recipient and they are a way to express that a trade didn't go 100% well. Why should one remove this possibility?

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Originally Posted by MrSm!th No, of course trade ratings are meant to indicate how trustworthy a person is and how well past trades with this person went. Whether the idea was successfully realized is another question.

Yea, sure they are (at least for the major amount of users). I just wanted to say, that they're not a indicator for me in a 1:1 trade, except for middleman trades. I'd never use a 10 TBM middleman for example, cuz this is a other situation. Over all I make use of them as well, even though not as much as other users (probably) do.

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Originally Posted by MrSm!th A bit off-topic: If everyone had your attitude ("I will never give first"), trading wouldn't work at all. Trading always needs a minimum of trust and the rating system was meant to provide that and actually it does a bit. The probability of being scammed by a user with 500 positive ratings is indeed less than of being scammed by one with no or even negative ratings. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to be scammed by the former and it doesn't mean that the latter always is a scammer; this is just a common misconception.

"I will never give first" is definitly not my unrestricted mindset, it's rather "I will never give something away, I can't get back" (what doesn't mean, that I'll never give first. I think I expressed myself the wrong way (didn't want to explain my entire trading mentality)). If I trade with elite*gold for example, I don't mind to send it first, because I can lock and get it back from the support in the worst-case scenario. Same goes for accounts, which contain games (without items you can sell/trade instantly on a market) and which you can get back from the support easily (but you can't generalize that of course; it depends on the individual circumstances). Gamekeys or the like are things I won't give first, because once they're activated, you can't get them back (or very complicated).

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Originally Posted by MrSm!th Still, to get back to actual topic, I don't see a reason to remove neutral ratings either. They don't really harm the recipient and they are a way to express that a trade didn't go 100% well. Why should one remove this possibility?

^ right

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Originally Posted by MrSm!th Still, to get back to actual topic, I don't see a reason to remove neutral ratings either. They don't really harm the recipient and they are a way to express that a trade didn't go 100% well. Why should one remove this possibility?

I still think it makes the member less trusted, had a friend who was selling a service, so in one client he couldn't serve him the service, so he apologized and re-funded him, and he has much positive tbms, why should a dude like him get a neutral when he re funded?

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Originally Posted by spidyftw He was just mentioning an example about the way how he usually does Trades, and it doesn't really matter trading with an old member with a high TBM rating Or a new registered member, Since you follow your own steps while trading which prevents you from getting scammed and ofc with the experience. that's what he meant ^^ Of course, everyone checks the TBM it makes you more comfortable with trade. About the ''neutral'' part, I see also no reason to remove it, since it means that the trade didn't go as it was supposed to be and also you didn't get scammed.

So I still didn't understand, is TBM rating important or not?

Cause at first you made me think that it's not important, then you said it makes us more comfortable.

for me you are wrong cause, someone like that dude [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...], why wouldn't I trust him?

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Originally Posted by Karim- I still think it makes the member less trusted, had a friend who was selling a service, so in one client he couldn't serve him the service, so he apologized and re-funded him, and he has much positive tbms, why should a dude like him get a neutral when he re funded?

It's not allowed to rate a not-executed trade, so this TBM is invalid anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ares​ It's not allowed to rate a not-executed trade, so this TBM is invalid anyway.

Yea, and he gave it just cause he gone all mad, so that's ma point ;)

And for the registered date, the posts etc...
ofc they make you much more trusted, Mr Sm!th doesn't have a high TBM, but still he is trusted besides that he is a global moderator ;)