P4Ns Dev Log

Some real world delays have come up but the Heroes project is still coming along nicely. Mainly been focused on fleshing out the economy and rates side of things because any future content kinda needs that to be roughed in before being added.


Lotto Redesign

Instead of doing CP drops from monsters we've re-structured how lottery works. Each lottery play costs 10 lotto tickets and generates an average payout of about 50CP in value (meaning each ticket has a rough value of around 5 CP). Tickets do not drop when you are PKd and have a max stack size of 99 (so they wont eat up a bunch of space).

This lets us introduce lotto tickets as a replacement for CP drops because they don't directly flood the economy with new CP. So far for testing we're doing lotto ticket drops from king mobs, gano and titan. We'll likely extend that and include them as daily quest rewards, from dura mobs and things like holiday events.

You can of course also buy lotto tickets from the mall or from other players.

Currently the lotto rewards are not 'final' (need a few more mid sized price to make it feel less punishing) but include.

MoneyBags (1-8)
Plus Stones (2-6)
+1 Stone Bags
LifeFruit/Pen Amulets/Disguise Amulets/Atk or Def Pots
Moonbox/Celestial Stone/Exemption tokens
Sashes
Refinery Boxes
Weapon Accessory Boxes
Dragonball
+ steeds
99/999 flower packs
House permit/upgrade permit
Gourd/bottle
ToughDrill
Pray Stones
Ref/Super Tort gems (cannot be mined)



We'll be fleshing that out with more cosmetic stuff like garment boxes, mount armors but the raw return is in a pretty good place. On startup we generate a million rewards and compute the average CP value per roll to make sure that as we adjust things it doesn't end up with stupid high/low rates.



Questing

Big difference between classic and more modern is that there's more quests. We've added a daily quest for each main map. We're mostly experimenting with new concepts right now so each one is intended to push our quest system a little bit further in what it's capable of.

Daily quests are focused on EXP and Study Point rewards right now although I'm thinking we'll extend them to include some free lotto plays in the future.

Dis city, star tower, heaven fan and riding crop quest are all finished up now. The main thing we're working on is maintaining proper client side guides. As much as TQs quest interface is shitty, it lets us make things a lot easier for players. We're not trying to do a 1:1 emulation of conquer so when we make changes, it makes sure we don't leave players confused or upset.

EG: Each stage of dis has its own in game quest tracker so you always know what you're supposed to be doing and how close you are to completion.

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Outside of that we're mostly just gathering player feedback and fixing up and bugs we encounter. Soon we should be back at 100% dev and can finish up the last few features for the server. The rest is then just testing and tweaking.


PS: Bonus pictures of poker progress. Lots of sanity checks to add but the systems are all working smoothly.

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For those who want to check the changelog or do some beta testing: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pro4never Currently the lotto rewards are not 'final' (need a few more mid sized price to make it feel less punishing) but include.

Well, I don't know if I got this right but heres the Lottery method what I got in my ver of Redux, I didn't code this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m e n a Well, I don't know if I got this right but heres the Lottery method what I got in my ver of Redux, I didn't code this.

We are not attempting to re-create same rewards as TQ. This is a different style because it

A: Wont give gear
B: Wont cost CP to play (although the tickets will be in mall, they wont be 27 cp plays)

The whole point is to make sure that the lotto rewards dont give more on average than the cost to play, same as any proper gambling system. Always keep a house edge.

Nice progress!

Big client patch today. Trying to get all the client resources finalized before the launch of the server (that way we can pack a full installer and avoid un-necessary patches for users).

I have a number of batch export tools I've written and today's patch for heroes includes all TQ garments properly integrated into the client.

Having a few issues importing the new mount skins. Not dug deep enough yet to see if it's a fatal issue (diff file formats for example) or just a conversion problem. Usually I'm able to make a few changes to how animation IDs are handled and it will display properly but not so with mounts. Once that's sorted I'll go ahead and do the same with dragon souls and effects to finalize any major additions (downloading 100 mb of patches is no fun, gotta integrate them now)

I was gonna drop this but Chris, go fuck yourself.

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If cheating (or being the provider for it) on a game equals cheating underaged children out of their pocket change, maybe you wanna have a discussion on the definition of "Morality" and "Good ol' contradictions".

Also, continue this behavior and you and I are going to skip talking and we will move on to the part where I become the guy that fucks up anything you touch hereafter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorev I was gonna drop this but Chris, go fuck yourself. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] If cheating (or being the provider for it) on a game equals cheating underaged children out of their pocket change, maybe you wanna have a discussion on the definition of "Morality" and "Good ol' contradictions". Also, continue this behavior and you and I are going to skip talking and we will move on to the part where I become the guy that fucks up anything you touch hereafter.

I fail to see any issue with what I said... you're well known as a troll (someone who posts with the intent of getting a reaction rather than participating in a conversation) and often your points are a bit contradictory. I have no issue with you personally nor anything you've posted in the thread but they are undeniably bait posts.

I have and will always be against this type of gameplay. I have the utmost respect for you as a developer, but much more respect in the efforts involved in correcting predatory free to play experiences. I also find this immoral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDaft I have and will always be against this type of gameplay. I have the utmost respect for you as a developer, but much more respect in the efforts involved in correcting predatory free to play experiences. I also find this immoral.

People want to gamble. If they didn't there wouldn't be a market for it. What we're developing simply allows the gambling experience to be more transparent and fair to users. Gambling using CPs earned in game or purchased from the website or using *insert point name here* earned in game or purchased from website makes very little difference. In either situation you are taking something with real value (you purchased it, could trade it for something or could sell it for something) and risking it at a chance of gaining something you value more.

The only difference between jewels and CPs from a player's perspective is that mature transactions (non refundable ones) can be withdrawn from the game without us trying to ban you. CPs get bought and sold all the time (either from our site or through the blackmarket) all that's changing is that we're making things more transparent and less risky for players. If a child managed to get access to an adult's paypal account and purchased a bunch of jewels, those are immature and the transaction can clearly be reversed by their parents and the jewels will be recovered by our systems. They are immature and function EXACTLY the same way that CPs do already. If they are purchasing mature jewels from an exchange (have the ability to be withdrawn back onto an exchange and sold) then they already have dozens/hundreds of possible gambling sites they could be accessing without having to exchange for jewels to use them in our game so that argument is also pretty much out the window.


If one wants to argue against jewels for moral reasons such as taking advantage of players with gaming/gambling additions or impulse purchases or any other number of negative possibilities, then virtually all of those same arguments will apply to CP or any other premium currency.

I'm not going out and trying to create a billion loot box systems where players need to dump thousands of dollars into the game, I'm not taking advantage of psychological tricks to force people into spending money and I'm certainly not trying to encourage children to spend their parents money without permission. There's a reason I'm never going to be offering crazy high rewards or crazy low hidden RNG rates like TQ does and it's because I personally am not comfortable with that sort of thing. Personally I feel that fair, clearly stated and provably fair systems with reasonable risk vs reward ratios are the way to go.


Official Conquer and many servers already have RNG loot boxes, demon boxes, lottery, poker, dice games, roulette, blackjack(?) and plenty of other RNG/Gambling based systems which allow people to spend and lose LARGE amounts of money. At the end of the day I find it very hard to argue that their approach is more ethical than provably fair low stakes gambling within the same context.

The TQ Dice system is a very clear example of the style of games we're looking to create and embed into the client... the difference being that every roll, every result will be validated and proved legitimate (no fake results to boost house edge). You can play those games using CP, you can play them using jewels, hell we might even let ppl use gold to play them. The end result is the same, you get more transparent results so players can be confident that they aren't being cheated out of their rewards.

Motherfucker ain't nobody talking about CPs or TQ.
We talking about you trying to get your shitty "fair" gambling app(s) integrated into the CO scene (HELLO CS:GO?) with shady bullshit wannabee bitcoin currency which is a gamble on it's own already.

Gonna try and integrate all those "fair" gambling app(s) into every CO server around, expand towards mobile shitty gambling app(s).

Just because you too lazy to get a real job and earn money without writing a book about "morals" shows how far you willing to go to continue your shady shitty gambling stuff.

You gonna be just as "fair" and "provable" as an average casino, just without a license and no age restriction.

It is very disgusting. I'm not for it. You can have a job running and developing a server, and you can be profitable. You're no better than TQ by allowing people to ruin their lives without moderation or restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorev Motherfucker ain't nobody talking about CPs or TQ. We talking about you trying to get your shitty "fair" gambling app(s) integrated into the CO scene (HELLO CS:GO?) with shady bullshit wannabee bitcoin currency which is a gamble on it's own already. Gonna try and integrate all those "fair" gambling app(s) into every CO server around, expand towards mobile shitty gambling app(s).

Our own servers are our focus as we want the content for players. Yes, we will be seeing if other server owners or game developers are interested. I'm not sure how that's a point against us... how is more content for players bad or more accessible content for developers bad?...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorev You gonna be just as "fair" and "provable" as an average casino, just without a license and no age restriction.

The average casino is actually very fair, they have to be in order to maintain their license. When talking about 'fair' in gambling it just means that they aren't fudging the rates behind the scenes. If there's a dice, it isn't weighted, if there's a roulette wheel, it's balanced, etc. Provably fair gambling just means that you're validating every roll so that it's proven mathematically that the server paid out what it is supposed to.

When our gambling games say you have a 1/10 chance to win, you know that it is the truth mathematically speaking because it's validated every single roll/spin/round. That is fair by any definition you wish to use. Provably fair RNG systems send the result before you play and when the round is complete sends the key to validate the results compared to the initial predicted outcome. That means there's no way for the system to change its mind and change the results without players being immediately aware that it's happened. Depending on the particular game, players also have a chance to influence the results, re-set the seed and many other things to give themselves a stronger sense of control over the outcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorev Just because you too lazy to get a real job and earn money without writing a book about "morals" shows how far you willing to go to continue your shady shitty gambling stuff.

I don't see how lazyness factors into anything. I work hard and I always have. The type of work I do has nothing to do with the discussion. Tech support, freelance programming, server development, etc it's all still work.




Anyways, I'm going to leave the debate there, we disagree and we've been over this all before and so I'm going to my own work.

Yeah, go post some screenshots of a garment or the poker map on that crypto forum.
Much wow, been there since what, 2009?

Nothing you are doing was created by you.
Using TQ's game client, same as every illegal private server that's been around for years and many more years to come.
Only difference is, no one else tried to scam 200 BTC from idiots on a crypto forum while getting them to fund shit you can't afford yourself.

I still find it very immoral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pro4never We are not attempting to re-create same rewards as TQ. This is a different style because it A: Wont give gear B: Wont cost CP to play (although the tickets will be in mall, they wont be 27 cp plays) The whole point is to make sure that the lotto rewards dont give more on average than the cost to play, same as any proper gambling system. Always keep a house edge.

Well, the idea of gambling is the chance, we are talking about programming so luck is a chance and you can not tell the player whos gambling that hes not able to get a fancy prize.. so I don't see this as proper gambling system as you said.

and about the poker gambling stuff I totally agree with Thorev and SuperDaft it's immoral and pointless, if you want to have gambling game just do a poker game that only focusing on gambling.